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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg so last week we

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played recordings of people who were

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doing their thing when Chris O'Brien was

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a mere 1 7 years old and today you're

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off on the road again

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but you're 200 you're 200 yards from a

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cell tower

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yeah one of the most beautiful overlooks

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in America with the BBC very interesting

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group of folks we're having a lively

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debate about the animal death

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unexplained livestock deaths Naumann on

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and the shoot is gone on twice as long

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as it was supposed to I guess I must be

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tweaking them somehow if they want to

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keep me for hours instead of - that's ok

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that's show business it never takes the

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amount of time that you predict yep so

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last week amongst all the characters you

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were listening to on all those clips

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that we got from Bob Sanaa Dee

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who was your favorite well you know the

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holistic barber was quite intriguing I

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think they all had some really good

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entertainment value I'm not sure what to

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make of some of the accounts I think if

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they come forward today they wouldn't

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have gotten you know near the traction

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that they did back in the day but but I

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find it fascinating because it really

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gives us a good sense of kind of the

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Wild West of ufology in the late fifties

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early sixties when when I think ufology

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was in this transitional phase of true

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believers and contactee ISM and people

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from Mars and Venus and all the sudden

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it started to take on a little different

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keel and I think that those years

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especially during the early to mid 60s

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really give us I think some really good

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insight into how this whole field and

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you know people's recognition of the

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phenomenon how its developed over

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time and and there was a sense of

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innocence and a sense of you know the

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suspension of disbelief act fact and

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that you know I think he is echoed today

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but I don't think those stories would

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have really gained much traction in in

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this day and age I was interested in

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hearing the story that Fiona was telling

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about the early years of the borderland

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Sciences Research Associates strictly

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because that was an organization that in

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the 1940s was talking about for D long

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before we were talking about 4d UFOs

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they did it first and we don't even hear

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about them anymore yeah yeah that's the

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name that barely kind of rings a bell in

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my mind but yeah some of these early

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fifties organizations and they were

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quite a number welcome to for our

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listeners do a little research I think

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you'll be amazed at how you know this

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because much more mainstream I stood

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back in those years and you didn't have

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the real mark demarcation and and the

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compartmentalization that you have today

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I think everything was sort of lumped

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together and and it was such a new and

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emerging you know proto science or

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uniformly system that the things were a

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lot less nailed down back then and and

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it just means while doing Wilier you

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know in looking over what we can find

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online there is an organization called

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Borderlands Sciences Research Foundation

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then actually considers itself the

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descendant of the original board of land

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Sciences Research Associates how about

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that it's right here it claims to have

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been the organization founded by Mead

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Lane in 1945 for the purpose of

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investigating into realms normally

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beyond the range of basic human

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perception and physical measurement

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today Borderlands Sciences continues to

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be the premier information resource for

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discerning scholars and advanced

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researchers on the frontiers of science

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and awareness I'll tell you just because

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of the background of this organization I

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think we should get them on I think it's

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a great idea I mean you know they're

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going into the normal stuff free energy

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Tesla radionics

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subtle energy therapeutic light water

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research fascinating great-great someone

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from their organization will make a

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great guest well I'm going to write them

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and see what kind of answers I get the

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site is very elementary you know really

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not that much of a site but I'm going to

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write them and see if they are

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interested in possibly coming on the

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power cast and also talking about all

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this stuff that went on through the

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years about their research see where it

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goes yeah yeah I think it's a great idea

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fascinating discovery there's also a

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ghost hunters organization in Vermont

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that's indicated the desire to come on

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the para cast and talk about some of

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their research up there and I was

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looking at their site this particular

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organization and they have a fascinating

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collection of equipment scientific

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equipment yeah I'd be interested to find

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out more well it's called the paranormal

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investigators of New England or pine and

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they've been featured on different TV

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shows and so I'm talking with the

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founders that's Jeff Stewart and Diane

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Stewart and we're gonna see what they

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have through offer and perhaps they'll

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be on a future of episode of the power

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cast now speaking of the past you know

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when we think about ufology the UFO

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field and how we got to where we are

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today we think about some of the early

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stories the early reports now of course

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we look at for example Roswell but

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Roswell we didn't hear about in the

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early days you know we heard rumors of

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maybe some UFO crashes here and there

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but Roswell the story didn't come out

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until what the late 1970s with Bill

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Moore with Charles Berlitz with Stan

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Freedman before then we never heard of

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Roswell it's like full-blown suddenly we

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have this mystery lain dormant for what

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thirty years suddenly comes to the fore

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and there's a reason why I'm going to

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mention that but certainly before we

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even do that we've done a number of

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shows on Roswell our listeners say we

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don't want to do any more shows on

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Roswell

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and we're not going to do a show on

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Roswell today by the way but every time

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we do a show on Rizzo it's one of our

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highest rated episodes what is the

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fascination about UFO crashes in the

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1940s because that takes us to our show

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today it does gonna be interesting I'm

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looking forward to so receiving the book

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I was hoping to get a copy of Ramsey's

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book before before he came on the show

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but I think I think he's gonna be able

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to get us up to speed on on almost a

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10-year process that he's undergone the

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in writing this book let's backtrack

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here what we're talking about here is a

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book called the Aztec incident recovery

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and Hart Canyon and this is not Roswell

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this is the Aztec UFO case and this is

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the case that has been the poor

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stepchild to Roswell because even people

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who accept Roswell as being something

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genuine something real do not generally

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accept Aztec although obviously Stanton

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Friedman does because he wrote the

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forward to the book well this should be

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interesting

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yes it's unfortunate that we didn't get

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a copy of the book it's not a big volume

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it's 212 pages is a 30 page excerpt

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online at their site Aztec the Aztec

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incident calm and you get a background

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of what the book is about and obviously

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this all started with an early UFO book

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behind the flying saucer is written in

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1950 by a guy named Frank Scully now

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Frank Scully was a gossip columnist who

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worked for variety so of course we have

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the stench of being a gossip columnist

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and the thing to have gossip columnist

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anymore we have that you know so today

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the gossip columnist work for MSNBC CNN

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Fox News ABC CBS NBC they no longer in

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the light a few those two it started

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there with Scully's book and some people

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said well this guy is just a show

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business writer why do you take the guy

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seriously of course we also elected an

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actor for presidents so I mean what's

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the difference but yeah there was a lot

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of dispute about this

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Jack but despite that Scott Ramsay has

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spent years and incredible amounts of

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money investigating it there's also a

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love story involved because he met his

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wife Suzanne during his investigation

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this is a fascinating story neighbors I

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can't say whether we buy it or we

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disbelieve let's take a few seconds to

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pull this off if you want to get in

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touch with us they're several ways one

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is to write us news if the power cast

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calm once again that's news at the power

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cast come on Twitter we are the power

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cast at the power cast on Twitter if you

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want to send us a tweet the Aztek

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incident coming next you're in the para

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to news at the para cast com that's news

305
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at the para cast calm and don't forget

306
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to visit our famous para cast community

307
00:14:24,169 --> 00:14:21,220
forums at forum dot the podcast.com we

308
00:14:27,299 --> 00:14:24,179
have Scott and Suzanne Ramsey they are

309
00:14:30,419 --> 00:14:27,309
two of the authors of the book the Aztec

310
00:14:32,969 --> 00:14:30,429
incident and they have two other people

311
00:14:35,099 --> 00:14:32,979
who work with them dr. Frank fair and of

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00:14:37,529 --> 00:14:35,109
course our old friend Frank Warren Scott

313
00:14:39,689 --> 00:14:37,539
and Suzanne welcome to the power cast

314
00:14:41,249 --> 00:14:39,699
well thanks for having us now this book

315
00:14:44,009 --> 00:14:41,259
has been a long time coming and I know

316
00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:44,019
when people do projects and it could be

317
00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:46,569
a book it could be a novel there could

318
00:14:52,859 --> 00:14:50,409
be a movie it could be a website or a

319
00:14:56,099 --> 00:14:52,869
software program it always takes longer

320
00:14:58,469 --> 00:14:56,109
than you predict so one fast question

321
00:15:01,889 --> 00:14:58,479
before we go on and frame the history of

322
00:15:05,429 --> 00:15:01,899
has tech why the long gestation period

323
00:15:07,619 --> 00:15:05,439
well it took over six years a lot of

324
00:15:09,719 --> 00:15:07,629
reasons well we kept doing a layout of

325
00:15:12,119 --> 00:15:09,729
the book we'd have a three-ring binder

326
00:15:14,189 --> 00:15:12,129
where we would had all the chapters in

327
00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:14,199
and as we learn things we added things

328
00:15:19,259 --> 00:15:16,929
and research more than we add that as

329
00:15:21,659 --> 00:15:19,269
well it just seems like every time we

330
00:15:23,849 --> 00:15:21,669
got to the point where Suzanne said okay

331
00:15:25,079 --> 00:15:23,859
it's a wrap let's let's really sit down

332
00:15:27,989 --> 00:15:25,089
and get the editing done get the

333
00:15:30,479 --> 00:15:27,999
pictures in we get another lead and so

334
00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:30,489
that just elated and actually as the

335
00:15:34,319 --> 00:15:32,169
book was being printed we have two

336
00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:34,329
incredible leads we need to follow up on

337
00:15:38,879 --> 00:15:37,029
but luckily at this point we just kind

338
00:15:41,219 --> 00:15:38,889
of drawing a line in the sand and said

339
00:15:43,199 --> 00:15:41,229
look stop we have to get the book going

340
00:15:44,939 --> 00:15:43,209
now the other thing here of course is

341
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:44,949
being taken seriously because if

342
00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:46,959
something is as they say in the software

343
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:48,760
business vapor

344
00:15:52,140 --> 00:15:50,710
it's hardened people that take seriously

345
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:52,150
but you get the book out there now

346
00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:53,770
having more information would you do a

347
00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:55,720
second edition would you do a book -

348
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:57,190
what would be the game plan

349
00:16:02,580 --> 00:15:59,920
I don't know gene you sound exhausted

350
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:02,590
from this 25 years from this thing at

351
00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:04,810
some point I I may have to move on I

352
00:16:09,270 --> 00:16:07,060
don't know maybe have somebody pick up

353
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:09,280
the ball it's been a lot of fun we have

354
00:16:13,860 --> 00:16:11,410
no regrets but we had we actually

355
00:16:16,140 --> 00:16:13,870
thought about doing another book kind of

356
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:16,150
a spin-off of the Aztec incident we were

357
00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:17,650
talking to the Air Force archives

358
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:19,270
there's really nobody that's done a

359
00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:22,480
complete book on Operation Paperclip so

360
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,400
we thought maybe you know kicking around

361
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:26,560
an idea about doing one other really

362
00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:29,410
good idea tell our listeners who are

363
00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:31,380
familiar with the inside baseball

364
00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:33,750
Operation Paperclip what was that

365
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,430
Operation Paperclip was right after well

366
00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:38,560
actually doing a little research we

367
00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:39,940
found that it was actually starting

368
00:16:44,430 --> 00:16:41,500
right before the end of World War two

369
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:44,440
where United States was in a race with

370
00:16:49,620 --> 00:16:47,290
the Soviets to get some of the brightest

371
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:49,630
German scientists that worked in many

372
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:51,490
different fields obviously the most

373
00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:54,010
obvious was the rocket program human

374
00:16:59,340 --> 00:16:57,430
medicine just to name a few and we were

375
00:17:01,230 --> 00:16:59,350
in a race with the Soviets after the war

376
00:17:02,910 --> 00:17:01,240
to get them out of Germany and get them

377
00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:02,920
over here to help us with our space

378
00:17:11,340 --> 00:17:06,070
program and during the interview with

379
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:11,350
British intelligence or the OSS if they

380
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:13,690
had an index card with a brief I'm not

381
00:17:18,329 --> 00:17:16,329
information on the scientist and if we

382
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:18,339
thought that you were a valuable asset

383
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:20,410
they'd put a paperclip on your index

384
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:21,910
card and you would leave the room and go

385
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:24,640
down one hall if we felt that you're a

386
00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:26,290
war criminal or you really brought

387
00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:28,990
nothing to the party no paperclip was

388
00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:31,540
put on your index card and you exited

389
00:17:35,730 --> 00:17:33,190
through another hallway where you were

390
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:35,740
either executed out in the courtyard or

391
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:38,170
turned over for the Nuremberg trials so

392
00:17:42,330 --> 00:17:40,000
you definitely want to be either way

393
00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:42,340
what really paperclip otherwise you have

394
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:45,640
a problem yeah Huntsville Alabama Los

395
00:17:51,780 --> 00:17:49,360
Cruces New Mexico or the gallows at norm

396
00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:51,790
burg that was pretty much your choice

397
00:17:58,980 --> 00:17:56,230
let's go back to Aztec okay now in the

398
00:18:02,340 --> 00:17:58,990
case of Roswell we really didn't hear

399
00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:02,350
much about it until the 1970s was

400
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:04,390
bill Moore and Stanton Friedman and

401
00:18:10,169 --> 00:18:06,610
Charles Berlitz got involved yes there

402
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:10,179
was that original story about recovering

403
00:18:14,909 --> 00:18:12,400
something at Roswell possibly a flying

404
00:18:16,890 --> 00:18:14,919
saucer but then they denied it said it

405
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:16,900
was just a balloon and most people

406
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:20,230
forgot about it but we has tech we heard

407
00:18:27,150 --> 00:18:23,530
about the thing early on because Aztec

408
00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:27,160
was a key subject of the book behind the

409
00:18:32,159 --> 00:18:29,080
flying saucers by Frank Scully which

410
00:18:33,779 --> 00:18:32,169
came out what in 1950 and that book sold

411
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:33,789
a lot of copies it probably sold more

412
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:36,490
copies than most UFO books combined

413
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:39,400
today did you have any information of

414
00:18:44,669 --> 00:18:41,710
the sales figures yeah just in the US

415
00:18:46,770 --> 00:18:44,679
alone 64 thousand copies plus according

416
00:18:49,919 --> 00:18:46,780
to Henry Wotton company we know it was

417
00:18:52,649 --> 00:18:49,929
printed in India we know it was pretty

418
00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:52,659
as some was printed in Hebrew in Israel

419
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,940
we have no total count there were

420
00:19:00,270 --> 00:18:57,520
licensing agreements with Henry Houghton

421
00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:00,280
company even a paperback version of the

422
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,220
book it could be 75 80 thousand books by

423
00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:05,440
the time it said and done now I wrote a

424
00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:08,230
lot of books about computers and all

425
00:19:13,770 --> 00:19:10,390
that stuff and I made a little bit of

426
00:19:15,870 --> 00:19:13,780
money I think one of my books sold 50 or

427
00:19:17,789 --> 00:19:15,880
60 thousand copies that was in the years

428
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:17,799
I was making enough money but when it

429
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,650
comes to you eyeball books I mean you're

430
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:22,240
lucky to sell two or three thousand I

431
00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:24,730
had lunch with Bill Steinman back last

432
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,820
June and halfway through lunch he said

433
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:29,440
how many books are you actually get a

434
00:19:33,409 --> 00:19:31,210
print this is a print-on-demand book

435
00:19:36,990 --> 00:19:33,419
this would appeal okay and what the same

436
00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:37,000
way is that you go to a printer and you

437
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:38,950
can print as little or as many as you

438
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,049
need and the price is a sliding scale

439
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:43,360
but the equipment is almost like a

440
00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:46,210
glorified high energy high resolution

441
00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:47,590
copying machine as opposed to a

442
00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:50,500
traditional print press yep exactly

443
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:52,630
and when I told Bill Steinman who is the

444
00:19:58,159 --> 00:19:55,330
author co-author of UFO crash at Aztec

445
00:20:00,690 --> 00:19:58,169
that was released in October of 87 a

446
00:20:03,419 --> 00:20:00,700
thousand his eyes about popped out he

447
00:20:04,770 --> 00:20:03,429
said are you crazy and I said you think

448
00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:04,780
too many he said yeah I think you're

449
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:07,960
safe at about 500 and he and wendell

450
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:10,000
stevens did a thousand he said boy when

451
00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:11,650
we got out of the project we had

452
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:13,990
hundreds of books that we sold to George

453
00:20:16,140 --> 00:20:15,850
Green who now distributes the book and

454
00:20:18,690 --> 00:20:16,150
now it's

455
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:18,700
very good seller because all the renewed

456
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:21,910
interest in Aztec but we did a thousand

457
00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:24,010
they printed they do plus or minus plus

458
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:26,470
or minus 10% we ended up with 1100 books

459
00:20:30,570 --> 00:20:28,810
and we're happy to say they're selling

460
00:20:34,170 --> 00:20:30,580
very well let's take a look at what

461
00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:34,180
happened with this theory of Aztec now

462
00:20:39,150 --> 00:20:37,150
okay so Scully's book comes out and the

463
00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:39,160
impression I get here is it wasn't taken

464
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:42,340
so seriously even by people who were

465
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:45,970
really serious UFO researchers and then

466
00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:48,640
of course true magazine this men's

467
00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:51,460
magazine not men in the sense of like

468
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:54,070
playboy with pictures of women on drape

469
00:20:59,520 --> 00:20:57,730
but action-adventure fiction all sorts

470
00:21:03,150 --> 00:20:59,530
of things they came out and they did

471
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:03,160
what they felt was an exposure of the

472
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:06,490
Aztec case why expose it what did they

473
00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:08,710
find that they felt was incredible are

474
00:21:12,660 --> 00:21:10,540
you talking about the you were breaking

475
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:12,670
up a little bit Ken Purdy or were you

476
00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:15,280
talking about Jay okay true magazine JP

477
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:17,940
Kahn oh that was JP Kahn okay I

478
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:20,410
addressed that Suzanne I go into a lot

479
00:21:26,670 --> 00:21:22,240
of detail on that in the book I I think

480
00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:26,680
there was some some jealousy with Kahn I

481
00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:29,620
think Kahn was trying to send angle the

482
00:21:37,770 --> 00:21:34,180
story from Scully from Silas Newton from

483
00:21:40,020 --> 00:21:37,780
leo gave our from different angles and I

484
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:40,030
think when he he had left the Chronicle

485
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:42,010
but still had a desk there the San

486
00:21:50,130 --> 00:21:46,770
Francisco Chronicle I think by the time

487
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:50,140
that dust settled and he didn't get the

488
00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:51,850
shot of a story that he thought the

489
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:53,950
Chronicle or he himself was going to

490
00:21:59,040 --> 00:21:56,530
have then I think he went negative on

491
00:22:00,960 --> 00:21:59,050
Scully so your opinion here is that it

492
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:00,970
wasn't the evidence that made him

493
00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:04,000
disbelieve it was the loss of a possible

494
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:07,240
book deal professional jealousy I think

495
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:09,370
so yeah and I and I came to that

496
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:11,290
conclusion I flew out to San Francisco

497
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:13,570
and actually met with Bob McClay his

498
00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:15,430
best best friend they worked at The

499
00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:16,750
Chronicle together

500
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:19,660
Bob McClay was in charge of his estate

501
00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:22,090
when he died Bob McClay went over almost

502
00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:24,820
every day to the nursing home to see JP

503
00:22:28,830 --> 00:22:26,950
I've got the last photograph in the book

504
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:28,840
of JP well game

505
00:22:35,129 --> 00:22:32,289
at a pecan and about the early years of

506
00:22:37,649 --> 00:22:35,139
the Aztec UFO investigation you're with

507
00:22:41,130 --> 00:22:37,659
gene and Chris with Scott and Suzanne

508
00:22:41,140 --> 00:22:48,279
[Music]

509
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:51,860
the GC and radio network providing the

510
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world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

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and great talk radio starts here Ray

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Perkins a reclusive betterment burned

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relentless perplexing nightmares

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594
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595
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596
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597
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especially excited about the great

598
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599
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600
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601
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really hustling out here what made the

602
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change for you yeah well our playbook

603
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604
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we're by Cintas these clothes are

605
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designed by women for women when they

606
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look good they're happier and our guests

607
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notice well judging by their extra

608
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effort this team is going to the next

609
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level with Cintas uniforms let's go up

610
00:26:44,270 --> 00:26:42,690
to the booth for more finally a line of

611
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women's work where they want to wear

612
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613
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614
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615
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616
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santa's calm slash radio and tell them

617
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to bring in the team with the white

618
00:27:06,410 --> 00:27:03,540
truck hi this is Don Ecker and you are

619
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,420
tuned in to the para cast let me tell

620
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:08,640
you what you're gonna hear stuff here

621
00:27:13,270 --> 00:27:10,640
that you probably won't

622
00:27:16,540 --> 00:27:13,280
here anywhere else here that George

623
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,550
snoring now what that means by the way

624
00:27:21,130 --> 00:27:18,080
is that we're probably one of the first

625
00:27:24,490 --> 00:27:21,140
shows out there to present Scott and

626
00:27:27,490 --> 00:27:24,500
Suzanne Ramsey and to talk about their

627
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:27,500
new book the Aztec incident recovery at

628
00:27:32,770 --> 00:27:29,630
Hart Canyon so we have the strange case

629
00:27:36,790 --> 00:27:32,780
here of JP Kahn from true magazine he

630
00:27:39,370 --> 00:27:36,800
writes an expose of the Aztec incident

631
00:27:40,110 --> 00:27:39,380
and your position Scott is that he

632
00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:40,120
didn't do it

633
00:27:46,150 --> 00:27:43,880
because he felt the case had no merit he

634
00:27:49,540 --> 00:27:46,160
did it because he lost out on the book

635
00:27:53,710 --> 00:27:49,550
deal I think so yeah in talking to Bob

636
00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:53,720
McClay again his his best friend and as

637
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:55,100
well as we're at lunch

638
00:28:00,040 --> 00:27:57,170
Jason when we get back to my house I'll

639
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:00,050
show you the book cover of JP Kahn's

640
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:01,760
book that was coming out to do a

641
00:28:06,730 --> 00:28:04,730
rebuttal against Scully and my mouth

642
00:28:08,890 --> 00:28:06,740
just fell open I said you got to be

643
00:28:11,260 --> 00:28:08,900
kidding me how do you have the cover he

644
00:28:13,030 --> 00:28:11,270
said because I did it for that Bob

645
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:13,040
McClay by the way was the staff artist

646
00:28:16,510 --> 00:28:14,210
at the Chronicle

647
00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:16,520
so we get back to his house and he gave

648
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:18,590
me he pulls out the original artwork and

649
00:28:23,140 --> 00:28:20,050
said here here's the cover for the book

650
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:23,150
now this book going to be a pro Astec

651
00:28:28,330 --> 00:28:25,310
book or an anti Aztec book it was gonna

652
00:28:29,710 --> 00:28:28,340
be I think an anti Scully book because

653
00:28:31,570 --> 00:28:29,720
we don't have the guts of the book that

654
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:31,580
that all got unfortunately that got

655
00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:34,450
dumped in the dumpster when JP Kahn died

656
00:28:40,260 --> 00:28:37,220
but Bob kept the cover though the

657
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:40,270
painting because that was his artwork

658
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:42,500
but I think the book wasn't gonna be

659
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:44,330
anti Aztec it was gonna be anti Frank

660
00:28:49,630 --> 00:28:47,690
Scully okay so let's look at the

661
00:28:52,540 --> 00:28:49,640
specifics here now just to acquaint our

662
00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:52,550
listeners with what's going on in the

663
00:28:57,730 --> 00:28:53,350
50s

664
00:29:01,390 --> 00:28:57,740
Jim Mosley saucer news he ran articles

665
00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:01,400
from JP Kahn and from Frank Scully about

666
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:03,860
the subject and certainly I recall

667
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:07,250
Scully's piece and even though he may

668
00:29:10,750 --> 00:29:08,960
have been a gossip columnist or whatever

669
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:10,760
he was pretty serious a straight ahead

670
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:14,450
that was my impression of him is it when

671
00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:16,550
you become a person who works in the

672
00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:19,100
entertainment publications if you work

673
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,110
for today Entertainment Weekly or People

674
00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:23,120
magazine suddenly you are less of a

675
00:29:26,289 --> 00:29:24,350
journalist as a result

676
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:26,299
I think that's what how people are

677
00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:28,970
refraining him okay but now let's take a

678
00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:32,030
look here at the denials and the reasons

679
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:36,169
for the denials so therefore for so many

680
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:39,049
years nobody paid attention or very few

681
00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:41,600
people pay attention Aztec what was

682
00:29:47,169 --> 00:29:43,720
their objection well

683
00:29:51,340 --> 00:29:47,179
Scully's book comes out and then the

684
00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:51,350
whole mix-up Lacan really what that

685
00:29:55,870 --> 00:29:54,020
evolved into was fraud charges being

686
00:29:59,919 --> 00:29:55,880
brought up against Silas Newton in Leo

687
00:30:02,799 --> 00:29:59,929
Gabe our for selling were leged Li

688
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:02,809
selling a Doodlebug machine to Hermann

689
00:30:08,980 --> 00:30:06,289
Slater of Colorado and claiming it would

690
00:30:11,140 --> 00:30:08,990
find oil gas gold and probably get rid

691
00:30:13,330 --> 00:30:11,150
of your cold well they're still doing

692
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:13,340
that by the way on TV but nobody arrests

693
00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:16,250
them but I know now the key is here

694
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,380
these are two sources cited by Scully in

695
00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:22,640
presenting what he claimed was evidence

696
00:30:28,180 --> 00:30:24,950
that the Aztec case took a place and

697
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:28,190
using they're suppose fraudulent

698
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:30,650
behavior as evidence to disbelieve them

699
00:30:35,890 --> 00:30:34,159
is that the case what I think what

700
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:35,900
happened with the Aztec case when

701
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:38,480
charges were brought against Silas

702
00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:42,289
Newton and Leo Gabe our I think the

703
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:45,620
credibility of Scully's story started to

704
00:30:52,419 --> 00:30:49,250
unravel okay so therefore it's like if

705
00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:52,429
they lied here they lied there you can't

706
00:30:57,399 --> 00:30:54,580
take anything these guys say seriously

707
00:31:00,610 --> 00:30:57,409
exactly and we go into great detail

708
00:31:03,789 --> 00:31:00,620
about the trial the fact that for

709
00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:03,799
federal judges wouldn't take the case

710
00:31:09,310 --> 00:31:05,960
they said this is a civil case not a

711
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:09,320
criminal case the fact that the the

712
00:31:14,169 --> 00:31:11,929
person in Colorado that finally listened

713
00:31:16,539 --> 00:31:14,179
to flakes later that claimed he had been

714
00:31:19,570 --> 00:31:16,549
defrauded was a justice of the peace and

715
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:19,580
they went after him on that so the baby

716
00:31:24,490 --> 00:31:21,770
got thrown out with the bathwater in

717
00:31:26,860 --> 00:31:24,500
that case and all because of all the

718
00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:26,870
sudden scholars popularity the book it

719
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:28,340
dragged the book right into it

720
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:32,240
so in a sense then this case killed

721
00:31:36,620 --> 00:31:34,610
interests in the book pretty much yeah

722
00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:36,630
okay absolutely yep

723
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:40,400
now like a deal for the Asian scenario

724
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:42,510
absolutely absolutely

725
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:45,170
okay let's take it to the next step here

726
00:31:52,190 --> 00:31:49,890
nobody else during this period from 1948

727
00:31:53,890 --> 00:31:52,200
through the time that people like you

728
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:53,900
and Bill Steinman began to investigate

729
00:32:00,860 --> 00:31:57,510
Aztec nobody came forth to say hey maybe

730
00:32:03,770 --> 00:32:00,870
there's some worthwhile information to

731
00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:03,780
be researched here yeah a gentleman out

732
00:32:10,210 --> 00:32:06,270
of Florida professor Carr came out

733
00:32:12,650 --> 00:32:10,220
briefly and worked with Leo string Feld

734
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:12,660
saying they had new evidence on the

735
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Aztec case but professor Carr would

736
00:32:20,660 --> 00:32:18,210
never name his sources so the story died

737
00:32:22,790 --> 00:32:20,670
pretty quick and none of the people that

738
00:32:24,170 --> 00:32:22,800
you talked to during your research they

739
00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:24,180
never came forward and said anything

740
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:28,200
about about Aztec a lot of people that

741
00:32:33,230 --> 00:32:29,970
we talked to came forward about it I'm

742
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:33,240
saying before you got involved no no

743
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:33,840
okay

744
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,970
no all right ed no we had it was like

745
00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:37,440
pulling teeth trying to get people to

746
00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:39,000
give us information of what happened out

747
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:39,300
there

748
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:41,610
now Steinman's book came out what in the

749
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:46,250
1980s was it 8080 October 87 okay so

750
00:32:52,430 --> 00:32:49,110
this book from Steinman and wendell

751
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:52,440
stevens comes out about a stick where

752
00:32:57,290 --> 00:32:54,570
did they start with their research how

753
00:33:01,280 --> 00:32:57,300
did they get hooked into this diamond

754
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:01,290
was probably the catalyst he had read

755
00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:03,330
Fred Frank Scully's book and could not

756
00:33:08,540 --> 00:33:06,180
understand why as we were just talking

757
00:33:11,570 --> 00:33:08,550
about the case died so quickly and the

758
00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:11,580
interest died over a simple civil case

759
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:15,870
of two businesspeople having a dispute

760
00:33:21,260 --> 00:33:18,600
with a third business person that being

761
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:21,270
Silas Newton and Gabe our and their

762
00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:24,390
dispute with Harmons later with this

763
00:33:29,420 --> 00:33:26,750
part of the story we never hear about

764
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:29,430
was the fact that Herman Slater had

765
00:33:35,090 --> 00:33:32,130
taken Silas Newton and Leo gave our for

766
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:35,100
a quarter of a million dollars but you

767
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:37,110
don't hear that side all story you had

768
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:38,610
to go through the court records to hear

769
00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:42,000
that part so here they have a claim for

770
00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:44,670
fifty-five thousand Slater does against

771
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:46,640
these two for a Doodlebug machine and

772
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:49,050
Newton says hey I loaned him two hundred

773
00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:50,700
and fifty six thousand dollars

774
00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:53,460
to be exact on his invention I of a

775
00:33:59,210 --> 00:33:55,380
health machine and we're going to market

776
00:34:02,290 --> 00:33:59,220
the two of them jointly you only hear

777
00:34:05,450 --> 00:34:02,300
one side of that story all right now

778
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:05,460
having gone through that how did you

779
00:34:10,370 --> 00:34:08,490
people go back to the sources and see

780
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:10,380
what might have really happened in Aztec

781
00:34:15,380 --> 00:34:12,890
where's the beginning of this culture

782
00:34:18,290 --> 00:34:15,390
mine was hearing about it on a business

783
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:18,300
trip about the same time Steinman's book

784
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:20,850
was coming out ironically not knowing

785
00:34:24,350 --> 00:34:22,410
anything about I didn't I didn't even

786
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:24,360
know Steinman's anything about Stefan's

787
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:26,370
book for four years did you have an

788
00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:28,410
interesting pose at that time I've

789
00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:30,300
always had an interest yeah

790
00:34:35,630 --> 00:34:33,270
I have and when I heard some people

791
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:35,640
talking about going hunting out on Hart

792
00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:38,850
Canyon Road near an old crash site my

793
00:34:42,590 --> 00:34:40,860
ears perked up not thinking was a flying

794
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:42,600
saucer crash site more of a fighter

795
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:45,450
plane or just an airplane and I asked

796
00:34:50,390 --> 00:34:47,430
some more details and I saw it's an old

797
00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:50,400
you know town story but it'll Flying

798
00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:52,230
Saucer either landed or crashed that on

799
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:55,710
our Canyon Road and having an airline

800
00:35:00,530 --> 00:34:57,090
ticket that had me there over the

801
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:00,540
weekend I had all day Saturday and

802
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:02,490
Sunday and a rental car at my disposal

803
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:04,560
so I went out and tried to find this

804
00:35:11,870 --> 00:35:09,810
alleged crash site and I just yeah just

805
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:11,880
a little bits and pieces I picked up but

806
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:13,050
picked up a lot of things that were

807
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:15,330
negative saying it never happened but I

808
00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:17,820
kept picking up equal amount of bits and

809
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:20,220
pieces from the locals that said well

810
00:35:25,460 --> 00:35:22,980
you know yeah we think it did happen and

811
00:35:26,660 --> 00:35:25,470
go talk to so-and-so and go talk to say

812
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,670
you know I'm finally I'm bouncing around

813
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:29,280
like a pinball talking to various people

814
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:33,210
and this took a period of years I'd go

815
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:35,040
out there about every six weeks the

816
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:37,050
customer at the time turned into being a

817
00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:40,320
very good customer of mine and so that

818
00:35:44,990 --> 00:35:42,390
put me out there about every six seven

819
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:45,000
weeks just a quick question here what

820
00:35:52,570 --> 00:35:48,000
kind of business are you in well I had

821
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:52,580
been in for 30 years the electrical

822
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application of manufacturing magnet wire

823
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magnet wires copper aluminum could the

824
00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:01,710
other specialty alloys but it's to be

825
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:03,630
very basic when you look at the windings

826
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,380
of an

827
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electric motor or a generator or

828
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transformer the copper or aluminum

829
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winding wire that's what we manufacture

830
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here in Charlie I'll tell you there's a

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great need for that

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let's take a few seconds to pull this

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off if you want to get in touch with us

834
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there are several ways one is to write

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us news at the power cast come once

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again that's news at the power cast come

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on Twitter we are the power cast at the

838
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power cast on Twitter if you want to

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send us a tweet or check our forums

840
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forum dot the power cast com forum dot

841
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the power cast comm we have Scott and

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Suzanne Ramsey we're talking about

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ashtec you're on with gene and with

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Chris you're in America's number one

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947
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Steinberg and Chris O'Brien

948
00:41:14,769 --> 00:41:12,470
we have Suzanne and Scott Ramsey now

949
00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:14,779
Scott let's just cover this very briefly

950
00:41:22,269 --> 00:41:20,150
during your voyages to Aztec to explore

951
00:41:24,970 --> 00:41:22,279
it with what's going on you met your

952
00:41:28,299 --> 00:41:24,980
future wife it's almost a love story yes

953
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:28,309
I met Suzanne as part of my research I

954
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:33,680
met her at a fundraiser in Aztec she was

955
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:35,930
covering the fundraiser for the Aztec

956
00:41:41,740 --> 00:41:39,170
UFO symposium and she was always very

957
00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:41,750
good she had a radio show like you have

958
00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:44,260
she was very good about having the

959
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:46,940
speaker's of the symposium on the show

960
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:49,010
either Wednesday or Thursday before the

961
00:41:55,690 --> 00:41:53,450
symposium started and that's how I met

962
00:41:58,750 --> 00:41:55,700
her we became very good friends and

963
00:42:01,799 --> 00:41:58,760
eventually she had me on her show

964
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:01,809
talking about the research on Aztec and

965
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:05,770
that led to she and I getting there and

966
00:42:11,770 --> 00:42:08,960
here you are and here we are moved here

967
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:11,780
from the lovely town of Aztec name

968
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:15,050
or actually farmington to Mooresville

969
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:17,510
North Carolina okay now in beginning

970
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:20,240
your research into Aztec how did you

971
00:42:25,060 --> 00:42:22,010
begin to assemble the evidence did you

972
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:25,070
use the Steinman book as a guidepost as

973
00:42:30,970 --> 00:42:29,390
to where to begin what not really I just

974
00:42:32,530 --> 00:42:30,980
kept really accurate notes so it's just

975
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,540
trying to piece it together because I

976
00:42:37,060 --> 00:42:34,160
knew so little about it I didn't know

977
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:37,070
Frank's Kelly's book existed I didn't

978
00:42:41,770 --> 00:42:39,290
know that Bill Steinman had come out

979
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:41,780
with a book kind of just bounced from

980
00:42:48,270 --> 00:42:44,330
person to person out there eventually I

981
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:48,280
went down to the airforce archives at

982
00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:50,690
Montgomery Alabama Maxwell Air Force

983
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:53,150
Base and the first time I went there for

984
00:42:58,060 --> 00:42:56,000
three days the second trip I got I got

985
00:43:00,100 --> 00:42:58,070
in Sunday night and mount Gummer II and

986
00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:00,110
I ended up researching Monday Tuesday

987
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:02,360
Wednesday Thursday Friday and left

988
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:04,250
Friday night and drove a partial way

989
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:07,220
back I had a whole week there looking

990
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:10,010
for aircraft accident reports or

991
00:43:16,060 --> 00:43:13,970
incident reports big difference looking

992
00:43:19,330 --> 00:43:16,070
for anything that could be confused with

993
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:19,340
this story of a flying saucer on a Mesa

994
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:21,650
out in hard Canyon and of course I

995
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:22,970
didn't find anything I was actually

996
00:43:29,050 --> 00:43:26,380
looking for a flying wing one of the old

997
00:43:31,420 --> 00:43:29,060
b-47 flying wings if you're thinking

998
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:31,430
about something like a test of some new

999
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:34,970
aircraft yeah looking for okay a limited

1000
00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:39,290
prototype prototype bomber that would

1001
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:40,670
have crashed it was pretty exotic

1002
00:43:45,850 --> 00:43:42,770
looking could the farmers and ranchers

1003
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:45,860
and oil field workers confuse that with

1004
00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:48,680
you know something a lenticular craft as

1005
00:43:54,310 --> 00:43:51,380
it was described any only thing I've had

1006
00:43:57,700 --> 00:43:54,320
in the 70s east of the crash site an f4

1007
00:44:00,310 --> 00:43:57,710
phantom crash like 73 74 but not nothing

1008
00:44:02,740 --> 00:44:00,320
that would take us back to 48 49 50 err

1009
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:02,750
okay let's look at the case let's look

1010
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:04,730
at the basic story and then we'll get

1011
00:44:11,170 --> 00:44:07,610
into more of the evidence okay when did

1012
00:44:12,810 --> 00:44:11,180
it happen exactly what day and do you

1013
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:12,820
have any background information about

1014
00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:16,130
weather conditions at the time not

1015
00:44:20,050 --> 00:44:18,110
pinpoint weather I know what the weather

1016
00:44:21,970 --> 00:44:20,060
was like an Aztek I know what the

1017
00:44:24,220 --> 00:44:21,980
weather was like in Farmington but I've

1018
00:44:27,069 --> 00:44:24,230
left the hotel and Aztec

1019
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:27,079
and gone 11.7 miles to the crash site

1020
00:44:31,569 --> 00:44:28,490
it's completely different weather I've

1021
00:44:33,490 --> 00:44:31,579
actually left downtown Aztec it with

1022
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:33,500
blue sky above me and got to the crash

1023
00:44:39,099 --> 00:44:35,690
site and I had snow flurries but the

1024
00:44:40,839 --> 00:44:39,109
date that seems to be consistent with

1025
00:44:45,550 --> 00:44:40,849
everybody that we talked to is March

1026
00:44:48,130 --> 00:44:45,560
25th 1948 just after or just before five

1027
00:44:49,569 --> 00:44:48,140
o'clock in the morning okay so you're

1028
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:49,579
not sure about the weather at that point

1029
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,530
we don't know what the weather was like

1030
00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:53,839
at the crash light a lot of the old

1031
00:44:59,319 --> 00:44:56,270
timers I interviewed they just they just

1032
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:59,329
couldn't remember but I can take the

1033
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:01,280
Aztec newspaper that came out a day

1034
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:03,130
later that recap the weather that week

1035
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:07,490
and it was chilly an Aztek but you know

1036
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:10,250
wasn't up to their ankles and snow or

1037
00:45:14,980 --> 00:45:12,130
anything like that in downtown Aztec

1038
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:14,990
okay now the specific portion this

1039
00:45:20,980 --> 00:45:17,839
location where it happened this Hart

1040
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:20,990
Canyon how far is that from military

1041
00:45:27,849 --> 00:45:24,560
base there any military bases nearby now

1042
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:27,859
you'd be sixty miles as the crow flies

1043
00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:32,960
from Los Alamos National Lab 127 miles

1044
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:35,569
as the crow flies from Kirtland Air

1045
00:45:42,609 --> 00:45:36,560
Force Base

1046
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:42,619
and Sandia National Labs 240 miles north

1047
00:45:47,650 --> 00:45:45,680
of White Sands Missile Range so there's

1048
00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:47,660
no there's nothing immediately nearby

1049
00:45:54,220 --> 00:45:51,380
the Al Wahda radar station 8090 miles as

1050
00:45:57,370 --> 00:45:54,230
the crow flies over at al Bato lake but

1051
00:45:58,960 --> 00:45:57,380
no there's nothing right there the other

1052
00:46:03,550 --> 00:45:58,970
question of course with regard to any

1053
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:03,560
possible test aircraft any cold war

1054
00:46:08,740 --> 00:46:06,770
training operations missile tests rocket

1055
00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:08,750
tests in the basilica de were going on

1056
00:46:13,870 --> 00:46:10,550
all the time but i could not find any

1057
00:46:16,450 --> 00:46:13,880
record of anything on that date in that

1058
00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:16,460
location okay that's a little too far

1059
00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:18,470
for a d2 to stray I mean that's you're

1060
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,150
pushing it with a v2 you're not gonna

1061
00:46:25,870 --> 00:46:22,400
get one that for AB was a v2 certainly

1062
00:46:27,790 --> 00:46:25,880
you'd recognize it yes okay and wouldn't

1063
00:46:31,410 --> 00:46:27,800
they I don't think they put a security

1064
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:31,420
let around it like what went on it that

1065
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:35,089
that Mesa that day and a hard Canyon you

1066
00:46:37,870 --> 00:46:37,280
leave the town of Aztec and and go north

1067
00:46:39,370 --> 00:46:37,880
just

1068
00:46:42,190 --> 00:46:39,380
little bit like you're going to Cedar

1069
00:46:45,550 --> 00:46:42,200
Hill or Durango then Hart Canyon beers

1070
00:46:48,340 --> 00:46:45,560
off to the right going east and it's out

1071
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:48,350
there on a Mesa on the north edge of the

1072
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:50,960
Hart Canyon Road is where this object

1073
00:46:56,380 --> 00:46:54,050
was found now that's the point nobody

1074
00:46:58,660 --> 00:46:56,390
actually saw something in the sky

1075
00:47:02,320 --> 00:46:58,670
there was no UFO sighting proceeding

1076
00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:02,330
this apparent crash oh no there was yeah

1077
00:47:06,580 --> 00:47:04,300
Valentine Archuleta that morning

1078
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:06,590
actually called the Air Force which is

1079
00:47:12,010 --> 00:47:09,170
probably how the Kirkland Air Force Base

1080
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,020
was alerted did something happen okay

1081
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:13,760
it's this one cases that we actually

1082
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:15,770
find in the Project Blue Book reports

1083
00:47:21,340 --> 00:47:18,410
I don't think so but it's one you find

1084
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:21,350
in Steinman's book and Valentine's Dead

1085
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:23,450
but I have talked to his family okay so

1086
00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:26,240
is there records of this case in the

1087
00:47:32,110 --> 00:47:27,710
family records something he wrote down

1088
00:47:34,060 --> 00:47:32,120
or something like that yeah it's too

1089
00:47:36,250 --> 00:47:34,070
long it involved that basically he came

1090
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:36,260
out about quarter to 5:00 that morning

1091
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:39,650
to eat booze a rancher and ran an

1092
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:40,910
orchard have actually very successful

1093
00:47:48,670 --> 00:47:44,450
the ranch and came out to check on his

1094
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:48,680
goats and sheep and saw a huge UFO in

1095
00:47:54,670 --> 00:47:52,610
his words fluttering like a leaf and

1096
00:47:59,680 --> 00:47:54,680
fluttering as those in trouble and

1097
00:48:03,040 --> 00:47:59,690
heading northeast and the Valentine hour

1098
00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:03,050
so Letta Ranch would be just almost do

1099
00:48:08,620 --> 00:48:06,080
south of the Mesa in Hart Canyon Road

1100
00:48:10,750 --> 00:48:08,630
and he quickly went in and called

1101
00:48:12,670 --> 00:48:10,760
Kirkland Air Force Base and said hey one

1102
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:12,680
of your crazy flying saucers you guys

1103
00:48:17,350 --> 00:48:14,330
are talking about I think it's in

1104
00:48:19,390 --> 00:48:17,360
trouble and it's it actually he claimed

1105
00:48:22,750 --> 00:48:19,400
bounced off the canyon behind his house

1106
00:48:24,550 --> 00:48:22,760
behind his ranch and the air for it took

1107
00:48:25,690 --> 00:48:24,560
two or three phone calls get through to

1108
00:48:28,450 --> 00:48:25,700
Kirkland I don't have my notes in front

1109
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:28,460
of me and they thanked him and said they

1110
00:48:33,010 --> 00:48:30,410
assured him that they would call him

1111
00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:33,020
back but wanted detailed information

1112
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:35,470
where he thought this object was heading

1113
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:39,110
so that's possibly how the Air Force was

1114
00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:41,330
alerted or the military was alerted as

1115
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,430
to which direction this object was going

1116
00:48:48,190 --> 00:48:45,680
okay was any evidence recovered of

1117
00:48:49,780 --> 00:48:48,200
something crashing near his home at

1118
00:48:53,859 --> 00:48:49,790
least some kind of impact

1119
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:53,869
okay now he said it hit and he saw

1120
00:49:00,290 --> 00:48:58,410
sparks fly and off it went over over

1121
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:00,300
that Mesa and heading out toward Hart

1122
00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:01,890
Kane okay just parenthetically you'd

1123
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,400
think if it's struck the canyon at that

1124
00:49:11,210 --> 00:49:08,160
particular point wouldn't there be some

1125
00:49:17,180 --> 00:49:11,220
evidence that something metallic struck

1126
00:49:20,329 --> 00:49:17,190
there you waiting well you know were you

1127
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:20,339
a fan of Formula One back in the 80s and

1128
00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:23,359
90s I'm going to give you a good example

1129
00:49:29,359 --> 00:49:26,609
they used to have titanium or sometimes

1130
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:29,369
until they outlawed beryllium stop

1131
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:31,290
blocks on the cars so the cars wouldn't

1132
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:33,210
bottom out and hit the carbon fiber

1133
00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:36,480
chassis is on the on the belly and they

1134
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:38,280
would run titanium then every time they

1135
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:39,780
got on the brakes and the car would dip

1136
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:42,510
you'd see a big shower of sparks and

1137
00:49:47,930 --> 00:49:45,359
after the race after 200 miles or 100

1138
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:47,940
miles whatever a Formula One race is 1/2

1139
00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:51,510
mm would be worn off yet you'd get these

1140
00:49:56,450 --> 00:49:54,060
incredible sparks so even though there

1141
00:49:58,780 --> 00:49:56,460
were sparks and probably we didn't have

1142
00:50:00,980 --> 00:49:58,790
the scientific measuring equipment today

1143
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:00,990
you wouldn't find any evidence of

1144
00:50:05,630 --> 00:50:03,839
anything right and not all medals when

1145
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:05,640
they give off a spark necessarily leave

1146
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:08,730
a trace now the craft that this person

1147
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:13,710
so any more details oh yeah a from

1148
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:16,079
Valentine archuleta or from the workers

1149
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:18,210
that came well let's go into the person

1150
00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:21,260
who saw it flying Oh

1151
00:50:26,210 --> 00:50:24,420
Valentine archuleta no he saw it as it

1152
00:50:30,260 --> 00:50:26,220
came across his ranch fluttering like a

1153
00:50:32,569 --> 00:50:30,270
leaf it careened off his back end what

1154
00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:32,579
did he see how big was it did make any

1155
00:50:37,849 --> 00:50:35,849
noises one he was interviewed pretty

1156
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:37,859
late in life and he was pretty old he

1157
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:41,310
said it was huge it was thin like a

1158
00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:47,520
pancake and had some searchlights on the

1159
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:50,609
bottom some types of lighting on the

1160
00:50:54,890 --> 00:50:52,530
bottom and they would that was about it

1161
00:50:57,650 --> 00:50:54,900
for his description ok something he's

1162
00:51:01,579 --> 00:50:57,660
remembering that took place 6070 years

1163
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:01,589
earlier okay yeah all right so much of

1164
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:03,010
the remembrances we have a

1165
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:05,200
well for example so the next stage in

1166
00:51:09,630 --> 00:51:07,510
our story of course is where people come

1167
00:51:11,250 --> 00:51:09,640
upon the wreckage and the other question

1168
00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:11,260
I guess I'll ask as we move to our next

1169
00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:14,260
segment is did the Air Force Base call

1170
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:17,620
this guy back and say hey here's a

1171
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:20,290
follow-up or did they just write it down

1172
00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:21,760
and ignore him that's one of the things

1173
00:51:25,650 --> 00:51:23,590
we're gonna find out we have Scott

1174
00:51:27,630 --> 00:51:25,660
Ramsay with Susanne Ramsay we're talking

1175
00:51:31,470 --> 00:51:27,640
about the Aztek case you're with Jean

1176
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:38,670
[Music]

1177
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:41,370
are you tired of searching for great

1178
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:44,170
talk-radio of the more important search

1179
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,880
from over we are the GCM radio network

1180
00:51:53,580 --> 00:51:51,520
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

1181
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:53,590
listen to GCN programs on the goal I

1182
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:55,930
have great news gzn has created a Droid

1183
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,090
and iPhone application and it's free

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00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:00,640
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1185
00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:02,710
click on the banner and download before

1186
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:04,150
you know it you'll be listening to your

1187
00:52:07,980 --> 00:52:06,400
favorite hard-hitting GCN shows live

1188
00:52:10,740 --> 00:52:07,990
around demand right on your droid or

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00:52:12,660 --> 00:52:10,750
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1190
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1191
00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:14,770
on the banner at juicy and live.com

1192
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:16,420
thanks again for listening to GC and

1193
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:19,510
live.com again that's GC and live.com we

1194
00:52:23,220 --> 00:52:21,130
the people grow cotton wheat fabric

1195
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:23,230
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

1196
00:52:26,580 --> 00:52:24,850
protect from counterfeit than carding to

1197
00:52:27,060 --> 00:52:26,590
a private bank having it lead back at

1198
00:52:28,830 --> 00:52:27,070
interest

1199
00:52:30,690 --> 00:52:28,840
forcing taxes to service debt this

1200
00:52:32,130 --> 00:52:30,700
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

1201
00:52:33,780 --> 00:52:32,140
stating a central bank issuing the

1202
00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:33,790
public currency is a greater menace to

1203
00:52:36,450 --> 00:52:34,900
the liberties of the people than a

1204
00:52:37,830 --> 00:52:36,460
standing army today anderson i'm placing

1205
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:37,840
a free silver dollar in a book that

1206
00:52:43,110 --> 00:52:39,850
explains our monetary system call for

1207
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:43,120
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

1208
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:46,180
understand the system call 866 to 237

1209
00:53:03,480 --> 00:52:59,170
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1210
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:03,490
standard of paranormal radio and now

1211
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:08,960
here's Jean Steinberg we come back with

1212
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:10,730
Scott mrs. Anne Ramsey with Jean and

1213
00:53:16,780 --> 00:53:13,250
Chris and the para cast exploring the

1214
00:53:18,610 --> 00:53:16,790
case of the Aztec UFO crash fought for

1215
00:53:20,350 --> 00:53:18,620
many years to be a possible hoax or a

1216
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:20,360
fantasy but now we're looking into the

1217
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:22,970
evidence that Scott Ramsey and Suzanne

1218
00:53:28,030 --> 00:53:24,650
Ramsey and others have accumulated over

1219
00:53:30,670 --> 00:53:28,040
many years okay so the question I framed

1220
00:53:32,890 --> 00:53:30,680
before we broke Scott did the Air Force

1221
00:53:35,470 --> 00:53:32,900
Base Kirtland Air Force Base call back

1222
00:53:39,570 --> 00:53:35,480
the witness and tell him anything no

1223
00:53:43,180 --> 00:53:39,580
never heard a word never heard of words

1224
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:43,190
that may have been reported during that

1225
00:53:47,170 --> 00:53:44,710
same time period of course we had the

1226
00:53:49,780 --> 00:53:47,180
dramatics why over several years later

1227
00:53:51,490 --> 00:53:49,790
in the Farmington area were there any

1228
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:51,500
any other sightings let's say in blue

1229
00:53:56,620 --> 00:53:53,930
books or other sighting logs yeah

1230
00:54:00,220 --> 00:53:56,630
leading up and - and then of course

1231
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:00,230
after the March 48th incident in Hart

1232
00:54:05,530 --> 00:54:01,970
Canyon and what Chris was referring to

1233
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:05,540
was the March 17th armada flyover of

1234
00:54:12,010 --> 00:54:09,530
hundreds as the newspaper reported of

1235
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:12,020
UFOs flew over Farmington which is just

1236
00:54:19,210 --> 00:54:16,190
20 miles west of Aztec yeah we go into

1237
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:19,220
some cases in the book Manuel sand of

1238
00:54:24,220 --> 00:54:21,770
all who is a Cuba a New Mexico police

1239
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:24,230
officer little town of Cuba without a

1240
00:54:30,190 --> 00:54:27,710
hundred miles southeast of the four

1241
00:54:31,990 --> 00:54:30,200
corners actually about halfway point

1242
00:54:34,990 --> 00:54:32,000
between Albuquerque in the four corners

1243
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:35,000
he and the highway patrolman by the name

1244
00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:39,680
of Andy Andrews we're seeing flying

1245
00:54:46,270 --> 00:54:42,710
saucers on highway 44 the connecting

1246
00:54:48,460 --> 00:54:46,280
road today it's called Highway 550 that

1247
00:54:50,140 --> 00:54:48,470
connects you from just north of

1248
00:54:53,020 --> 00:54:50,150
Albuquerque to the town of Bernalillo

1249
00:54:55,810 --> 00:54:53,030
then into Cuba and then onto the Four

1250
00:54:59,260 --> 00:54:55,820
Corners area Andy Andrews would come

1251
00:55:02,890 --> 00:54:59,270
down not quite to Cuba his territory

1252
00:55:05,410 --> 00:55:02,900
would be the Continental Divide and then

1253
00:55:06,820 --> 00:55:05,420
Manuel sand of all would patrol for the

1254
00:55:09,340 --> 00:55:06,830
town of Cuba from the

1255
00:55:11,650 --> 00:55:09,350
that will divide all the way to about 20

1256
00:55:13,330 --> 00:55:11,660
miles south of the town of Cuba well

1257
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:13,340
they'd meet me evening for coffee and

1258
00:55:20,530 --> 00:55:17,650
pie at at a hotel restaurant in Cuba and

1259
00:55:23,050 --> 00:55:20,540
talk about recap that night about

1260
00:55:26,260 --> 00:55:23,060
speeders about lost people lost tourists

1261
00:55:27,940 --> 00:55:26,270
on and on and on and the subject started

1262
00:55:31,210 --> 00:55:27,950
getting more and more toward flying

1263
00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:31,220
saucers and having incredible sightings

1264
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:33,470
the two of them the same night sometimes

1265
00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:36,290
possibly the same object but these were

1266
00:55:41,740 --> 00:55:38,720
structured craft with portholes with

1267
00:55:43,810 --> 00:55:41,750
landing lights seeming to scan the

1268
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:43,820
desert floor and canyons although as

1269
00:55:49,870 --> 00:55:46,160
Manuel said as though they were looking

1270
00:55:53,380 --> 00:55:49,880
for something now during the day Manuel

1271
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:53,390
sand of all also worked security but not

1272
00:55:59,560 --> 00:55:56,810
for the town of Cuba but for the Union

1273
00:56:01,540 --> 00:55:59,570
Pacific gas company that had the

1274
00:56:03,220 --> 00:56:01,550
pipeline that came down the backside of

1275
00:56:06,460 --> 00:56:03,230
Los Alamos all the way down to the

1276
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:06,470
pumping station of library so they did

1277
00:56:10,170 --> 00:56:08,000
between his day job

1278
00:56:12,550 --> 00:56:10,180
and talking to other workers and

1279
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:12,560
experiencing what he and Andy Andrews

1280
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:15,710
saw at night yes there were a lot of UFO

1281
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:18,770
sightings okay how and when was the

1282
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:22,400
wreckage of this apparent strange craft

1283
00:56:29,290 --> 00:56:25,570
discovered the morning of March 25th

1284
00:56:31,630 --> 00:56:29,300
1948 oil field worker Doug Nolan was

1285
00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:31,640
enroute that morning to his boss's house

1286
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:34,670
Bill Ferguson they were employed by El

1287
00:56:41,230 --> 00:56:38,330
Paso gas and they were gonna head down

1288
00:56:42,910 --> 00:56:41,240
south toward bloomfield and Bill

1289
00:56:45,610 --> 00:56:42,920
Ferguson informed him that they were

1290
00:56:49,150 --> 00:56:45,620
being redirected out to Hart Canyon Road

1291
00:56:53,350 --> 00:56:49,160
because there was a bad brush fire near

1292
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:53,360
or awfully close to a storage area of

1293
00:57:00,970 --> 00:56:58,640
drip tanks and when they got out to the

1294
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:00,980
drip tanks it turned out that the fire

1295
00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:04,610
was up on the Mesa the Doug Doug Nolan

1296
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:07,640
was enroute out to his boss's house Bill

1297
00:57:12,430 --> 00:57:10,400
Ferguson and they had a day planned down

1298
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:12,440
near Bloomfield in the Blanco area

1299
00:57:18,010 --> 00:57:15,920
checking some compressors and when he

1300
00:57:19,690 --> 00:57:18,020
got to Bill Ferguson's house his boss

1301
00:57:20,830 --> 00:57:19,700
informed him that now they were going

1302
00:57:23,470 --> 00:57:20,840
out to Hart Canyon

1303
00:57:25,870 --> 00:57:23,480
the complete opposite direction because

1304
00:57:29,650 --> 00:57:25,880
a brush fire was reported out near their

1305
00:57:31,150 --> 00:57:29,660
drip tanks the big storage tanks and

1306
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:31,160
well when they got out there it turned

1307
00:57:36,820 --> 00:57:33,730
out that the brush fire was up on a Mesa

1308
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:36,830
on top of the drip tank so it did pose

1309
00:57:41,530 --> 00:57:38,710
no no threat

1310
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:41,540
however oil field workers that got there

1311
00:57:46,660 --> 00:57:43,850
ahead of them said to Bill Ferguson the

1312
00:57:48,370 --> 00:57:46,670
senior guy you don't have to worry about

1313
00:57:50,290 --> 00:57:48,380
the brush fire it's on the eastern end

1314
00:57:53,950 --> 00:57:50,300
of the Mesa but directly above the oil

1315
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:53,960
tanks on the Mesa is a object we have no

1316
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:55,520
idea what this is you need to come look

1317
00:57:59,220 --> 00:57:56,090
at it

1318
00:58:01,150 --> 00:57:59,230
now just parently I want to ask these

1319
00:58:02,830 --> 00:58:01,160
remembrances you're giving us is this

1320
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:02,840
something the original witnesses wrote

1321
00:58:08,890 --> 00:58:05,930
down that you looked at or what

1322
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:08,900
uh Doug Nolan perhaps did Bill Ferguson

1323
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:11,090
I don't know he was long dead by the

1324
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:12,650
time I got onto this story are you

1325
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:15,110
getting it from the family members no

1326
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:18,170
actually I got this from Doug Nolan

1327
00:58:23,110 --> 00:58:20,690
before he died but I never had never

1328
00:58:25,630 --> 00:58:23,120
timing I ran out to talk to Ferguson I

1329
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:25,640
think he died in the early early to mid

1330
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:29,570
70s and Doug was 19 at the time by the

1331
00:58:34,810 --> 00:58:32,570
time I interviewed him he was 83 so

1332
00:58:37,060 --> 00:58:34,820
young kids back in 48 by the time you

1333
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:37,070
get to him in the 80s 90s and 2000's

1334
00:58:40,930 --> 00:58:38,720
they're getting up there in years now

1335
00:58:42,820 --> 00:58:40,940
we're there written documents with any

1336
00:58:45,010 --> 00:58:42,830
of these witnesses you could refer to to

1337
00:58:47,620 --> 00:58:45,020
maybe bring their remembrances more

1338
00:58:50,350 --> 00:58:47,630
up-to-date couldn't answer that don't

1339
00:58:52,750 --> 00:58:50,360
know okay okay I did it purely by saying

1340
00:58:56,130 --> 00:58:52,760
you know I let people talk just tell me

1341
00:58:59,110 --> 00:58:56,140
your story tell me what you remember and

1342
00:59:00,700 --> 00:58:59,120
and that's what Doug did we talked to

1343
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:00,710
him before he died and he had just had a

1344
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:04,640
series of strokes so he was he was

1345
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:06,290
struggling with his speech but his mind

1346
00:59:13,210 --> 00:59:09,710
was very sharp okay so let's continue

1347
00:59:16,060 --> 00:59:13,220
with the story they get up there and up

1348
00:59:20,260 --> 00:59:16,070
on the Mesa and there's a large as he

1349
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:20,270
put it lenticular object lenticular

1350
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:22,970
meaning like almost like a contact lens

1351
00:59:29,590 --> 00:59:27,200
blown up very small cross-section did no

1352
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:29,600
apparent damage whatsoever

1353
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:33,050
Peter brushed aluminum type color not

1354
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:34,400
shiny

1355
00:59:43,809 --> 00:59:38,930
no rivets no seams no bolts screws nuts

1356
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:43,819
bolts anything he said it looked like it

1357
00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:46,130
had been molded out of a mold it was so

1358
00:59:53,019 --> 00:59:50,020
perfect and it was laying at a you know

1359
00:59:55,870 --> 00:59:53,029
15 degree angle I think is what I I took

1360
00:59:58,240 --> 00:59:55,880
that on my notes from talking to him in

1361
01:00:01,329 --> 00:59:58,250
the sandy silt on top of the Mesa so

1362
01:00:03,519 --> 01:00:01,339
crash into the sand it crashed

1363
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:03,529
controlled landing yet or whatever you

1364
01:00:07,180 --> 01:00:04,880
want to use there was there was no

1365
01:00:09,970 --> 01:00:07,190
apparent damage and everybody we talked

1366
01:00:13,450 --> 01:00:09,980
to had the same story about it no

1367
01:00:15,099 --> 01:00:13,460
apparent so now that's the point to how

1368
01:00:17,890 --> 01:00:15,109
many of the people that you talk to were

1369
01:00:19,630 --> 01:00:17,900
direct witnesses like this one okay

1370
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:19,640
these are people who are saying this is

1371
01:00:23,799 --> 01:00:21,529
what I remember and the stories were

1372
01:00:28,539 --> 01:00:23,809
fairly consistent okay

1373
01:00:31,210 --> 01:00:28,549
so large craft how big we're talking

1374
01:00:35,529 --> 01:00:31,220
about here hundred feet and I am okay

1375
01:00:41,470 --> 01:00:35,539
it's like a football field okay football

1376
01:00:45,460 --> 01:00:41,480
size craft saucer shaped with their

1377
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:45,470
hatches portholes anything yep they

1378
01:00:50,769 --> 01:00:47,569
talked about portholes going around the

1379
01:00:53,620 --> 01:00:50,779
top dome there was a dome on top and a

1380
01:00:58,539 --> 01:00:53,630
dome on the bottom of this lenticular

1381
01:01:00,910 --> 01:00:58,549
wing the one on top being noticeably

1382
01:01:02,740 --> 01:01:00,920
larger look at taking up on it looks

1383
01:01:09,059 --> 01:01:02,750
like it almost was an extra floor up on

1384
01:01:11,950 --> 01:01:09,069
top and a beard sunglass type of

1385
01:01:14,019 --> 01:01:11,960
material that you had to get real close

1386
01:01:16,420 --> 01:01:14,029
to realize it wasn't part of the craft

1387
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:16,430
and they could look in CAI and Doug

1388
01:01:21,010 --> 01:01:18,410
described it as the mirrored sunglasses

1389
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:21,020
that became popular in the 70s and 80s

1390
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:23,510
and you could look through it and they

1391
01:01:26,829 --> 01:01:25,010
found one that was broken about a

1392
01:01:28,650 --> 01:01:26,839
half-inch hole he said that big enough

1393
01:01:32,500 --> 01:01:28,660
you could put your thumb through it and

1394
01:01:34,450 --> 01:01:32,510
Bill Ferguson went got a fire pole they

1395
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:34,460
had no idea what it was last thing they

1396
01:01:40,660 --> 01:01:37,089
thought it was a flying saucer from

1397
01:01:43,420 --> 01:01:40,670
parts unknown I assume I expect on some

1398
01:01:46,750 --> 01:01:43,430
kind of conventional aircraft they don't

1399
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:46,760
Millia with yeah military that it's

1400
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:48,410
exactly what Doug party so we never

1401
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:50,960
anything other than hey this is one of

1402
01:01:57,130 --> 01:01:54,050
ours and we need to get in here and see

1403
01:02:00,160 --> 01:01:57,140
if we can help somebody and so Ferguson

1404
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:00,170
said yeah and they won got a fire pole

1405
01:02:07,450 --> 01:02:03,410
and poked around kind of breaking out

1406
01:02:10,570 --> 01:02:07,460
the the porthole and poking around

1407
01:02:13,030 --> 01:02:10,580
inside the cabin until Doug says you

1408
01:02:14,890 --> 01:02:13,040
know I don't know what Ferguson hit but

1409
01:02:16,330 --> 01:02:14,900
all of a sudden a stairwell dropped down

1410
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:16,340
out of the bottom it's kind of like the

1411
01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:19,490
stairwell ahead or perhaps of course

1412
01:02:23,770 --> 01:02:21,950
similar to a walkway of some sort I

1413
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:23,780
always think about the movie the data I

1414
01:02:27,340 --> 01:02:25,490
think they they're sit still but then it

1415
01:02:29,380 --> 01:02:27,350
was just like a platform he walked down

1416
01:02:32,350 --> 01:02:29,390
that platform here we're talking about

1417
01:02:35,110 --> 01:02:32,360
stairs so we have the big craft with the

1418
01:02:36,940 --> 01:02:35,120
stairway okay we have Scott Ramsay with

1419
01:02:40,070 --> 01:02:36,950
Suzanne Ramsay with Jean and Chris

1420
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:47,710
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1500
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like to hear from you if you have a

1516
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:54,740
comment or question about the para cast

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sent it to news at the para cast com

1518
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:01,840
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1519
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don't forget to visit our famous para

1520
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:07,210
cast community forums at forum dot the

1521
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para cast comm we have Scott and Suzanne

1522
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:13,930
Ramsey and we're talking about

1523
01:07:19,349 --> 01:07:17,200
the Aztec incident the long-awaited book

1524
01:07:20,790 --> 01:07:19,359
it's finally available for purchase a

1525
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:20,800
limited print run so you better hurry

1526
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:22,090
we'll tell you later how to get a copy

1527
01:07:28,859 --> 01:07:25,330
of the book and we're dissecting the

1528
01:07:34,230 --> 01:07:28,869
initial discovery of a strange craft

1529
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:34,240
lenticular in shape 100 feet in diameter

1530
01:07:42,180 --> 01:07:38,730
and they push something inside that

1531
01:07:44,550 --> 01:07:42,190
opens up stairs I guess a stairway so

1532
01:07:48,540 --> 01:07:44,560
they can enter the craft right that's

1533
01:07:51,290 --> 01:07:48,550
correct and at that point Doug said

1534
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:51,300
that's when we quickly came to the

1535
01:07:55,020 --> 01:07:53,290
realization that well actually actually

1536
01:07:56,550 --> 01:07:55,030
they viewed in the porthole they saw two

1537
01:07:59,160 --> 01:07:56,560
bodies slumped it would look like a

1538
01:08:02,370 --> 01:07:59,170
control panel and after the staircase

1539
01:08:04,530 --> 01:08:02,380
came down and they looked up inside Doug

1540
01:08:07,020 --> 01:08:04,540
said it was apparent that these probably

1541
01:08:10,079 --> 01:08:07,030
weren't military people they were very

1542
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:10,089
small and childlike in size tradition

1543
01:08:16,380 --> 01:08:13,690
and Ray type aliens or what no not gray

1544
01:08:18,870 --> 01:08:16,390
he said they were they were that they're

1545
01:08:21,990 --> 01:08:18,880
actually burned the chocolate brown or

1546
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:22,000
light brown from what he said look like

1547
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:24,730
a mass decompression the bottom possibly

1548
01:08:29,039 --> 01:08:26,710
what might have happened here is there

1549
01:08:31,620 --> 01:08:29,049
was some kind of hull breach as we say

1550
01:08:34,099 --> 01:08:31,630
in Star Trek language yeah there you go

1551
01:08:36,599 --> 01:08:34,109
okay so this is a hull breach and

1552
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:36,609
possibly the atmosphere gets in there

1553
01:08:41,789 --> 01:08:39,000
and we don't know what kind of hostile

1554
01:08:44,340 --> 01:08:41,799
impact it has these people who went

1555
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:44,350
there and saw these beings they couldn't

1556
01:08:48,900 --> 01:08:46,960
really detect any particular features no

1557
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:48,910
he just said it just was apparent that

1558
01:08:54,749 --> 01:08:51,850
these weren't you know tall military

1559
01:08:58,050 --> 01:08:54,759
guys test-flying something he said it

1560
01:08:59,340 --> 01:08:58,060
got kind of very strange at that point

1561
01:08:59,970 --> 01:08:59,350
keep in mind we're you know Bill

1562
01:09:02,010 --> 01:08:59,980
Ferguson

1563
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:02,020
mr. and mrs. night that our local

1564
01:09:08,420 --> 01:09:05,440
ranchers out there are three you know

1565
01:09:10,620 --> 01:09:08,430
more or less senior people I think Doug

1566
01:09:12,570 --> 01:09:10,630
talked about they're always thinking

1567
01:09:16,410 --> 01:09:12,580
bill was really a lot older and I think

1568
01:09:18,599 --> 01:09:16,420
he was 25 he was the old guy 25 years of

1569
01:09:21,150 --> 01:09:18,609
age this is a couple of kids basically

1570
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:21,160
coming into this wreckage not

1571
01:09:25,410 --> 01:09:22,570
understanding what happened but there's

1572
01:09:28,860 --> 01:09:25,420
no physical wreckage outside except for

1573
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:28,870
the broken porthole exactly okay

1574
01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:30,730
yeah it's not like you hear descriptions

1575
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:33,430
of Roswell where there was a debris

1576
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:35,770
field this is not a Mesa of debris it's

1577
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:39,730
a Mesa of virtually intact because they

1578
01:09:43,170 --> 01:09:41,530
couldn't see all the underside but you

1579
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:43,180
know what they were looking at was in

1580
01:09:46,770 --> 01:09:44,410
very good shape

1581
01:09:49,950 --> 01:09:46,780
but inside the creatures look they'd

1582
01:09:51,630 --> 01:09:49,960
been burned yep okay so what happened

1583
01:09:54,420 --> 01:09:51,640
next what did they do they try to enter

1584
01:09:58,350 --> 01:09:54,430
the craft some stuck their head up in

1585
01:10:01,740 --> 01:09:58,360
the stairwell at this point we we've

1586
01:10:04,500 --> 01:10:01,750
gone during all this a police officer

1587
01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:04,510
has shown up and that is who I firmly

1588
01:10:11,310 --> 01:10:08,320
believe was Manuel sand of all you

1589
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:11,320
believe but he couldn't confirm oh I'm

1590
01:10:17,630 --> 01:10:14,290
convinced pumkin been how so how you

1591
01:10:20,940 --> 01:10:17,640
convinced this story he told people

1592
01:10:23,820 --> 01:10:20,950
about his encounter with a a flying

1593
01:10:26,570 --> 01:10:23,830
saucer and you take that encounter that

1594
01:10:30,660 --> 01:10:26,580
he told and put it together with what

1595
01:10:34,170 --> 01:10:30,670
Doug Nolan and Ken Farley and other

1596
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:34,180
people say about the crash and all of a

1597
01:10:38,850 --> 01:10:35,890
sudden well this has to be the same one

1598
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:38,860
and I'll place some significance

1599
01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:41,410
Doug Nolan when he when I was first

1600
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,510
interviewing him I just like I said I

1601
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:45,520
let people talk just tell me what

1602
01:10:50,270 --> 01:10:47,290
happened that day Doug and I'll just sit

1603
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:50,280
here and take notes and he talks about

1604
01:10:59,090 --> 01:10:53,440
then the second police officer shows up

1605
01:11:01,620 --> 01:10:59,100
now I I'm not even cognizant of

1606
01:11:05,370 --> 01:11:01,630
comprehending two police officers

1607
01:11:08,100 --> 01:11:05,380
showing up in 1948 in this remote part

1608
01:11:11,130 --> 01:11:08,110
of the desert eleven point seven miles

1609
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:11,140
from downtown Aztec and that's the only

1610
01:11:16,980 --> 01:11:13,690
time I stopped them at that point I said

1611
01:11:19,980 --> 01:11:16,990
Doug if I was out there today and if I

1612
01:11:23,010 --> 01:11:19,990
got a cell connection and if I could

1613
01:11:24,900 --> 01:11:23,020
call 9-1-1 I doubt I would get to

1614
01:11:27,870 --> 01:11:24,910
Sheriff Department

1615
01:11:29,790 --> 01:11:27,880
personnel out there today because

1616
01:11:31,710 --> 01:11:29,800
because of the territory that's you know

1617
01:11:33,330 --> 01:11:31,720
their San Juan County Sheriff's

1618
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:33,340
Department's a great group of guys and

1619
01:11:37,740 --> 01:11:35,440
girls but they don't have the resources

1620
01:11:40,050 --> 01:11:37,750
to take and put two police cars out

1621
01:11:42,300 --> 01:11:40,060
there and he said well one was from the

1622
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:42,310
town of Cuba and one was a local police

1623
01:11:47,790 --> 01:11:45,730
officer that everybody knew keep in mind

1624
01:11:50,850 --> 01:11:47,800
Doug had just moved to that area from

1625
01:11:52,890 --> 01:11:50,860
Mancos Colorado but he said when the

1626
01:11:54,900 --> 01:11:52,900
second police officer showed up it was

1627
01:11:57,510 --> 01:11:54,910
first-name basis with everybody and you

1628
01:11:59,730 --> 01:11:57,520
know they all knew him now I've narrowed

1629
01:12:02,070 --> 01:11:59,740
that down to three or four police

1630
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:02,080
officers it could be another highway

1631
01:12:08,190 --> 01:12:05,170
patrolman like an Andy Andrews it could

1632
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:08,200
be another San Juan sheriff or a share

1633
01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:11,110
at San Juan Sheriff's Department it

1634
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:14,560
could have been the Aztek constable at

1635
01:12:19,950 --> 01:12:16,960
the time but the witnesses who you

1636
01:12:23,010 --> 01:12:19,960
talked to they didn't recall which

1637
01:12:24,690 --> 01:12:23,020
department no Doug had just moved down

1638
01:12:28,110 --> 01:12:24,700
there he said I probably knew at the

1639
01:12:28,830 --> 01:12:28,120
time but at 80 some years old and going

1640
01:12:32,130 --> 01:12:28,840
through what I've gone through

1641
01:12:34,590 --> 01:12:32,140
health-wise I don't recall Ken Farley

1642
01:12:37,260 --> 01:12:34,600
didn't live in the area he was transient

1643
01:12:39,630 --> 01:12:37,270
going through the area enroute to San

1644
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:39,640
Diego as a young guy with a buddy and

1645
01:12:43,380 --> 01:12:41,650
the only reason they went out Hart

1646
01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:43,390
Canyon Road is all the commotion they

1647
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:45,580
saw the police car and he said possibly

1648
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:48,130
an ambulance or a fire truck he said I

1649
01:12:52,770 --> 01:12:51,370
don't remember what but we thought key

1650
01:12:54,930 --> 01:12:52,780
we're out in the middle of nowhere and

1651
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:54,940
this looks like an emergency let's go

1652
01:12:58,380 --> 01:12:56,770
were either gonna help or rubberneck

1653
01:13:00,870 --> 01:12:58,390
what's going on let's follow these guys

1654
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:00,880
out okay once the authorities showed up

1655
01:13:05,580 --> 01:13:03,040
what happened to these witnesses were

1656
01:13:07,350 --> 01:13:05,590
they interrogated what well the police

1657
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:07,360
officers are there they're talking to

1658
01:13:11,670 --> 01:13:09,010
each other then they come over and this

1659
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:11,680
is the second local police officer and

1660
01:13:17,340 --> 01:13:14,170
forms the oil field workers the day the

1661
01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:17,350
military has been called and you need to

1662
01:13:21,420 --> 01:13:19,840
get out of here and we'll tell that to a

1663
01:13:23,340 --> 01:13:21,430
bunch of nineteen-year-old oil field

1664
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:23,350
workers or 19 year old kids in general

1665
01:13:28,290 --> 01:13:26,080
and they said this looks big we're not

1666
01:13:31,230 --> 01:13:28,300
leaving we're sticking around and they

1667
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:31,240
did and then the military showed up late

1668
01:13:36,510 --> 01:13:33,490
morning early afternoon that that part

1669
01:13:38,580 --> 01:13:36,520
varied a little bit and yes then the oil

1670
01:13:41,100 --> 01:13:38,590
field workers and mr. and mrs.

1671
01:13:43,050 --> 01:13:41,110
eight were separated even the police

1672
01:13:45,660 --> 01:13:43,060
officers and they were interrogated what

1673
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:45,670
did you see and basically as I address

1674
01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:47,770
in the book we'll it wasn't really what

1675
01:13:50,580 --> 01:13:49,510
did you see it's we're here to tell you

1676
01:13:52,350 --> 01:13:50,590
you didn't see a thing

1677
01:13:54,540 --> 01:13:52,360
and it's about national security which

1678
01:13:58,370 --> 01:13:54,550
agency did these military officers

1679
01:14:01,890 --> 01:13:58,380
represent both Doug and can everybody

1680
01:14:04,110 --> 01:14:01,900
consistently says they had no mention on

1681
01:14:06,690 --> 01:14:04,120
their uniforms of whether they were Army

1682
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:06,700
Air Force you know we had the Air Force

1683
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:08,650
then the newly formed Air Force from the

1684
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:10,930
Army Air Corps they were in generic

1685
01:14:15,870 --> 01:14:13,690
uniforms as they showed up on the site

1686
01:14:17,970 --> 01:14:15,880
so it's even possible they weren't from

1687
01:14:20,220 --> 01:14:17,980
the military at all they could be from

1688
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:20,230
Atomic Energy Commission or you know

1689
01:14:23,490 --> 01:14:21,610
take your choice

1690
01:14:25,950 --> 01:14:23,500
okay so they were questioned separately

1691
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:25,960
and told basically you didn't see

1692
01:14:29,070 --> 01:14:26,410
anything

1693
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:29,080
don't talk about it that's right get out

1694
01:14:34,710 --> 01:14:32,320
of here and Doug said years years would

1695
01:14:36,750 --> 01:14:34,720
go by and he'd bring it up to Bill

1696
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:36,760
Ferguson in the truck the two of them

1697
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:38,890
would be going out to an oil field or a

1698
01:14:42,690 --> 01:14:40,930
compressor that was in trouble and they

1699
01:14:44,700 --> 01:14:42,700
need to go out and check on it or fix it

1700
01:14:46,170 --> 01:14:44,710
and he'd say to bill you know we're you

1701
01:14:47,670 --> 01:14:46,180
know come on bill where do you think

1702
01:14:49,290 --> 01:14:47,680
that thing came from what the heck do

1703
01:14:50,970 --> 01:14:49,300
you think that thing was in Ferguson

1704
01:14:52,710 --> 01:14:50,980
would look at it and say Doug we're not

1705
01:14:54,270 --> 01:14:52,720
supposed to talk about that so this was

1706
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:54,280
at that time we have to kind of paint

1707
01:14:59,400 --> 01:14:56,770
this you know yeah back in the late 40s

1708
01:15:01,710 --> 01:14:59,410
early 50s years following World War two

1709
01:15:03,930 --> 01:15:01,720
we believed the government we believed

1710
01:15:07,230 --> 01:15:03,940
the authorities and if the police said

1711
01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:07,240
don't talk about it if the Air Force or

1712
01:15:11,430 --> 01:15:09,040
whatever military agency was involved

1713
01:15:14,070 --> 01:15:11,440
said don't talk about it we accepted

1714
01:15:17,220 --> 01:15:14,080
that as something as patriotic Americans

1715
01:15:19,710 --> 01:15:17,230
today we'd say sure are right and five

1716
01:15:22,170 --> 01:15:19,720
minutes later we call up the local cable

1717
01:15:24,900 --> 01:15:22,180
station say hey guess what happened to

1718
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:24,910
me we have Scott Ramsey Suzanne Ramsey

1719
01:15:31,630 --> 01:15:27,010
talking about Aztec with Jeanne and

1720
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:37,739
[Music]

1721
01:15:44,069 --> 01:15:40,890
the GZ and Radio Network providing the

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and great talk radio starts here Ray

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1804
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at a manufacturing firm in Chapel Hill

1805
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with me is Bob the GM Bob your company's

1806
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ship's product nationwide but talk about

1807
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the home offices new game plan well we

1808
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had ten years of old paperwork piled up

1809
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here it was a mess a security risk and

1810
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my dog used to bury bones in the piles

1811
01:19:14,710 --> 01:19:12,650
we needed a game changer and now I see

1812
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:14,720
Cintas trucks shredding all those files

1813
01:19:18,490 --> 01:19:16,850
they're known for uniforms tell me about

1814
01:19:18,940 --> 01:19:18,500
their shredding playbook they're the

1815
01:19:20,410 --> 01:19:18,950
best

1816
01:19:21,940 --> 01:19:20,420
they have trucks across the country

1817
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:21,950
shredding tons of documents every day

1818
01:19:25,780 --> 01:19:23,840
and every scrap of paper gets recycled

1819
01:19:27,460 --> 01:19:25,790
that sounds like a winning move with

1820
01:19:29,410 --> 01:19:27,470
centimes trucks here weekly they're

1821
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:29,420
happy they won't spend hours shredding

1822
01:19:33,340 --> 01:19:31,370
documents themselves let's go to the

1823
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1824
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1825
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1826
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1827
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1828
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:45,110
or visit sent us calm slash radio and

1829
01:19:50,110 --> 01:19:47,930
tell him to bring in the team with the

1830
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white truck

1831
01:19:54,670 --> 01:19:52,670
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1832
01:19:58,660 --> 01:19:54,680
comment or question about the para cast

1833
01:20:01,960 --> 01:19:58,670
sent to 2 news at the para cast com

1834
01:20:04,060 --> 01:20:01,970
that's news at the para cast calm and

1835
01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:04,070
don't forget to visit our famous para

1836
01:20:11,410 --> 01:20:07,280
cast community forums at forum death of

1837
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:11,420
para cast calm so we're speaking of a

1838
01:20:16,630 --> 01:20:14,330
time when regular people believe the

1839
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:16,640
authorities when they said shut up

1840
01:20:20,650 --> 01:20:18,650
they shut up with scott and suzanne

1841
01:20:23,260 --> 01:20:20,660
ramsey were looking at the Aztec case

1842
01:20:26,050 --> 01:20:23,270
we're continuing with what happened at

1843
01:20:28,690 --> 01:20:26,060
Hart Canyon now after the authorities

1844
01:20:31,450 --> 01:20:28,700
said shut up did all these people you

1845
01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:31,460
talk to just dispersed go home what yeah

1846
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:35,450
pretty much they'd spent a greater part

1847
01:20:39,700 --> 01:20:36,770
of the day out there you know it was

1848
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:39,710
afternoon by the time it was all the

1849
01:20:47,620 --> 01:20:44,210
always had done and everybody went their

1850
01:20:49,990 --> 01:20:47,630
own way and Doug said he talked to very

1851
01:20:54,250 --> 01:20:50,000
very few people about this his life he

1852
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:54,260
really wanted it on the record he how I

1853
01:21:01,390 --> 01:20:57,410
found Doug was he contacted Simon after

1854
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:01,400
Simon's book was out and I called bill

1855
01:21:08,290 --> 01:21:06,290
in 90 early 90s and he really didn't

1856
01:21:11,860 --> 01:21:08,300
want any part of the Aztec story he was

1857
01:21:14,890 --> 01:21:11,870
pretty much burned out he thought he

1858
01:21:17,530 --> 01:21:14,900
thinks to this day he lost his job over

1859
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:17,540
finishing the book when his employer

1860
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:20,000
told him not to his employer told him

1861
01:21:24,430 --> 01:21:22,370
not to why I worked for an aerospace

1862
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:24,440
company I didn't think that would be

1863
01:21:29,020 --> 01:21:26,690
smart for a quality control engineer to

1864
01:21:33,700 --> 01:21:29,030
be writing a book about flying saucers

1865
01:21:35,980 --> 01:21:33,710
that crashed in Hart Canyon so he lost

1866
01:21:37,750 --> 01:21:35,990
his job shortly after that he couldn't

1867
01:21:41,140 --> 01:21:37,760
get a job in the aerospace business he

1868
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:41,150
felt that he was blackballed which some

1869
01:21:45,130 --> 01:21:42,890
of that conspiracy I have to go along

1870
01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:45,140
with I mean he never did get a job back

1871
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:47,120
in the aerospace business he's a

1872
01:21:53,260 --> 01:21:49,130
brilliant guy he's a great guy you've

1873
01:21:56,230 --> 01:21:53,270
ever met him I contacted him and he was

1874
01:21:59,590 --> 01:21:56,240
very very nice but very short with me

1875
01:22:01,750 --> 01:21:59,600
and just said look go go get your feet

1876
01:22:03,310 --> 01:22:01,760
what when you're really serious when I

1877
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:03,320
think you're serious then I'll talk to

1878
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:03,890
you but

1879
01:22:07,030 --> 01:22:05,600
I don't think you've been doing this

1880
01:22:10,150 --> 01:22:07,040
long enough I think I've been doing it

1881
01:22:11,590 --> 01:22:10,160
six years and so I waited a few years

1882
01:22:13,090 --> 01:22:11,600
and called him back and he said you

1883
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:13,100
still at this and I said yeah and he

1884
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:14,570
said were yet I told him how much

1885
01:22:20,290 --> 01:22:18,650
research we had done and where we were

1886
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:20,300
and so he said well here then let me

1887
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:21,650
you're serious let me give you a couple

1888
01:22:25,330 --> 01:22:23,450
of leads and these people are still

1889
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:25,340
alive great if not you know I did the

1890
01:22:28,780 --> 01:22:26,000
best I could

1891
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:28,790
so this was a litmus test this is the

1892
01:22:33,310 --> 01:22:30,890
best I'm an litmus test that you have to

1893
01:22:35,140 --> 01:22:33,320
be involved in this thing for ten years

1894
01:22:37,450 --> 01:22:35,150
or so before he will even talk to you

1895
01:22:42,580 --> 01:22:37,460
good which is about how long he put into

1896
01:22:44,350 --> 01:22:42,590
it right so as a matter of fact Oh bill

1897
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:44,360
may be listening to this show when it

1898
01:22:50,710 --> 01:22:48,650
airs but I will he'll have a book in his

1899
01:22:52,180 --> 01:22:50,720
hand by the way he I did not call him

1900
01:22:54,490 --> 01:22:52,190
last week and tell him the book was done

1901
01:22:57,130 --> 01:22:54,500
I just want a book to show up and kind

1902
01:22:58,750 --> 01:22:57,140
of surprise him but he he was an

1903
01:23:00,850 --> 01:22:58,760
enormous help and saying hey you know

1904
01:23:02,710 --> 01:23:00,860
here's some leads an engine I know what

1905
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:02,720
he feels like you know our books out and

1906
01:23:07,300 --> 01:23:04,610
we already have two very good solid

1907
01:23:09,340 --> 01:23:07,310
leads that need to be followed up and

1908
01:23:13,090 --> 01:23:09,350
some of the leads he gave us were very

1909
01:23:17,410 --> 01:23:13,100
good and then Randy Barnes a resident of

1910
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:17,420
Aztec came up with Ken Farley and Ken

1911
01:23:23,260 --> 01:23:20,450
was a good witness he wasn't from the

1912
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:23,270
area he didn't pal around with these

1913
01:23:27,940 --> 01:23:24,890
guys in Aztec where they could have

1914
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:27,950
concocted a story and we talked to Ken

1915
01:23:32,470 --> 01:23:30,290
and Ken brought up being at the crash

1916
01:23:34,690 --> 01:23:32,480
site and two police officers and that's

1917
01:23:37,030 --> 01:23:34,700
the interesting thing here after all

1918
01:23:39,610 --> 01:23:37,040
these years because they were admonished

1919
01:23:41,710 --> 01:23:39,620
not to say anything they said nothing

1920
01:23:44,290 --> 01:23:41,720
even though they may have been contacted

1921
01:23:47,290 --> 01:23:44,300
through the years basically none of the

1922
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:47,300
story about as tech leaked out I guess

1923
01:23:52,330 --> 01:23:49,610
until Steinman got involved after the

1924
01:23:53,170 --> 01:23:52,340
initial flurry with Frank Scully yes

1925
01:23:55,510 --> 01:23:53,180
that's true

1926
01:23:57,340 --> 01:23:55,520
now you have a chapter chapter 7 I

1927
01:24:00,370 --> 01:23:57,350
wanted to break into this and ask you a

1928
01:24:02,830 --> 01:24:00,380
question why we say that birds of a

1929
01:24:05,230 --> 01:24:02,840
feather flock together and the way it's

1930
01:24:07,660 --> 01:24:05,240
spelled is of course it's Carl flock he

1931
01:24:10,300 --> 01:24:07,670
was kind of a was a skeptical gentleman

1932
01:24:13,390 --> 01:24:10,310
he was co-author of Jim Mosley's book

1933
01:24:15,340 --> 01:24:13,400
shockingly close to the truth right lock

1934
01:24:18,219 --> 01:24:15,350
didn't believe in Aztec why what's his

1935
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:18,229
objection or what was his objection

1936
01:24:21,790 --> 01:24:20,090
well I want to I'm gonna answer that

1937
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:21,800
question with a statement first by the

1938
01:24:28,449 --> 01:24:23,840
way Carlo and I agreed on a lot of

1939
01:24:30,429 --> 01:24:28,459
things in life politics sports call and

1940
01:24:32,859 --> 01:24:30,439
I became good friends it was like to

1941
01:24:35,020 --> 01:24:32,869
adding two friends that could not agree

1942
01:24:37,779 --> 01:24:35,030
on politics when it came to as it sounds

1943
01:24:40,659 --> 01:24:37,789
like me and my wife okay there you go

1944
01:24:41,919 --> 01:24:40,669
and people sometimes think Karl and I

1945
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:41,929
were at each other's throat

1946
01:24:51,250 --> 01:24:47,449
only when we were talking a stick his

1947
01:24:52,810 --> 01:24:51,260
whole theory was and for your listeners

1948
01:24:55,739 --> 01:24:52,820
that don't know Karl Karl had an

1949
01:24:58,449 --> 01:24:55,749
incredible background military career

1950
01:25:01,810 --> 01:24:58,459
working for different agencies within

1951
01:25:04,859 --> 01:25:01,820
the government including the CIA and was

1952
01:25:09,129 --> 01:25:04,869
a very very bright and talented guy but

1953
01:25:12,580 --> 01:25:09,139
his whole thing about Aztek was Silas

1954
01:25:15,759 --> 01:25:12,590
Newton and Leo gave our were dragged in

1955
01:25:17,679 --> 01:25:15,769
on a confidence charges therefore the

1956
01:25:18,339 --> 01:25:17,689
entire credibility of the case goes out

1957
01:25:21,699 --> 01:25:18,349
the window

1958
01:25:23,609 --> 01:25:21,709
and I could never get Carl beyond even

1959
01:25:25,899 --> 01:25:23,619
if you said look at all these witnesses

1960
01:25:28,810 --> 01:25:25,909
no oh no he wouldn't look at the

1961
01:25:31,649 --> 01:25:28,820
witnesses because these two people were

1962
01:25:34,270 --> 01:25:31,659
suspect that's correct

1963
01:25:38,979 --> 01:25:34,280
exactly gotta keep in mind he's not a

1964
01:25:41,679 --> 01:25:38,989
big fan of Roswell either Karl was a big

1965
01:25:43,239 --> 01:25:41,689
fan of a few selected cases Bart Barney

1966
01:25:45,729 --> 01:25:43,249
and Betty Hill you know that was one

1967
01:25:48,939 --> 01:25:45,739
that he looked into and felt comfortable

1968
01:25:50,259 --> 01:25:48,949
with but you know I I had a lot of

1969
01:25:51,909 --> 01:25:50,269
problems with Karl and I used to talk to

1970
01:25:55,509 --> 01:25:51,919
him about it and say Karl you live in

1971
01:25:57,629 --> 01:25:55,519
Bernalillo you are two hours and 15

1972
01:25:59,799 --> 01:25:57,639
minutes from your house to the Graduate

1973
01:26:02,679 --> 01:25:59,809
landing site whatever we want to call it

1974
01:26:06,100 --> 01:26:02,689
I live in North Carolina just north of

1975
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:06,110
Charlotte 1836 miles from my driveway to

1976
01:26:12,549 --> 01:26:10,010
the crash site he had a he had bad mouth

1977
01:26:14,770 --> 01:26:12,559
as text for years and the only time he

1978
01:26:16,629 --> 01:26:14,780
went to the crash site is when I put him

1979
01:26:18,879 --> 01:26:16,639
in my rental car and took him to the

1980
01:26:21,609 --> 01:26:18,889
crash site and I said how can you

1981
01:26:24,069 --> 01:26:21,619
possibly write negative things about the

1982
01:26:25,779 --> 01:26:24,079
Aztek crash you've never been to the

1983
01:26:27,939 --> 01:26:25,789
site you've never looked around at the

1984
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:27,949
physical evidence you have never walked

1985
01:26:30,790 --> 01:26:29,570
up and down Main Street talked to

1986
01:26:32,530 --> 01:26:30,800
anybody

1987
01:26:34,629 --> 01:26:32,540
that would be like a homicide detective

1988
01:26:37,209 --> 01:26:34,639
never leaving his house and solving a

1989
01:26:39,549 --> 01:26:37,219
murder case I said come on Carl

1990
01:26:42,220 --> 01:26:39,559
you know you do your research if you

1991
01:26:46,180 --> 01:26:42,230
don't like it after that after that then

1992
01:26:48,010 --> 01:26:46,190
that's fine but don't the quote Stan

1993
01:26:50,319 --> 01:26:48,020
Freedman don't armchair don't sit in

1994
01:26:50,979 --> 01:26:50,329
your armchair and and then try to solve

1995
01:26:53,169 --> 01:26:50,989
this thing

1996
01:26:57,339 --> 01:26:53,179
speaking of which Kevin Randall hasn't

1997
01:26:58,750 --> 01:26:57,349
bought Aztec his he read this book he's

1998
01:27:04,299 --> 01:26:58,760
reading it now and I don't think he'll

1999
01:27:05,979 --> 01:27:04,309
buy it after he reads it okay we will he

2000
01:27:07,649 --> 01:27:05,989
sent me an email over the weekend it

2001
01:27:10,930 --> 01:27:07,659
wasn't going in a positive direction

2002
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:10,940
okay and there's there's a lot of people

2003
01:27:17,500 --> 01:27:13,449
in the field of ufology that have never

2004
01:27:20,319 --> 01:27:17,510
accepted Aztec and you know if you have

2005
01:27:23,169 --> 01:27:20,329
noticed Suzanne and I and not for any

2006
01:27:25,390 --> 01:27:23,179
negative reason but we're not we don't

2007
01:27:28,330 --> 01:27:25,400
subscribe to the field of ethology

2008
01:27:32,229 --> 01:27:28,340
we look at this is purely a research

2009
01:27:35,470 --> 01:27:32,239
project in a research case it's it's

2010
01:27:36,910 --> 01:27:35,480
tainted in the field of ufology if there

2011
01:27:40,990 --> 01:27:36,920
is such a thing by the way of the field

2012
01:27:42,729 --> 01:27:41,000
of ufology but so we have to look at it

2013
01:27:45,250 --> 01:27:42,739
from fresh eyes look at the fresh

2014
01:27:47,470 --> 01:27:45,260
evidence and not be part of the band

2015
01:27:49,330 --> 01:27:47,480
that says I want to be part of Aztec or

2016
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:49,340
if I don't I don't want to be part of

2017
01:27:52,299 --> 01:27:50,000
Aztec

2018
01:27:55,060 --> 01:27:52,309
apparently the popular thing is not to

2019
01:27:57,189 --> 01:27:55,070
be part of it okay so you were basically

2020
01:28:00,939 --> 01:27:57,199
going up against conventional wisdom

2021
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:00,949
here I think that would wrap it up I got

2022
01:28:04,209 --> 01:28:02,090
the impression that some of our

2023
01:28:05,589 --> 01:28:04,219
listeners may some the questions they

2024
01:28:07,660 --> 01:28:05,599
posed and we've asked some of them

2025
01:28:09,010 --> 01:28:07,670
already we'll have more to pose as we

2026
01:28:12,270 --> 01:28:09,020
progress from the questions and our

2027
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:12,280
forms at forum dr. Peric ascom i gather

2028
01:28:16,569 --> 01:28:14,570
people are trying to be fair about it

2029
01:28:20,229 --> 01:28:16,579
but there's a general tendency to be

2030
01:28:23,410 --> 01:28:20,239
skeptical of Aztec even if they were to

2031
01:28:29,459 --> 01:28:23,420
accept Roswell and Aztec has kind of

2032
01:28:34,569 --> 01:28:31,780
well you know you look at the beginning

2033
01:28:37,149 --> 01:28:34,579
of Roswell look at the events happening

2034
01:28:39,220 --> 01:28:37,159
all of a sudden it's on the front page

2035
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:39,230
of many newspapers around the country

2036
01:28:44,770 --> 01:28:42,050
army recovers flying discs or whatever

2037
01:28:48,430 --> 01:28:44,780
the exact quote was and now eight

2038
01:28:51,899 --> 01:28:48,440
later we have the the Aztec incident it

2039
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:51,909
doesn't make the cover of a newspaper

2040
01:28:57,850 --> 01:28:56,210
was the military a lot better did they

2041
01:29:01,720 --> 01:28:57,860
learn from their mistake of putting out

2042
01:29:04,830 --> 01:29:01,730
a press release back in 1947 I don't

2043
01:29:07,870 --> 01:29:04,840
know I I think when I talked to people

2044
01:29:08,470 --> 01:29:07,880
you you feel strong about the Roswell

2045
01:29:11,319 --> 01:29:08,480
incident

2046
01:29:13,209 --> 01:29:11,329
why not Aztec well I think it's well the

2047
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:13,219
story broke it hit the wire service the

2048
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:15,530
military put out a press release saying

2049
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:17,210
we finally captured one of these damn

2050
01:29:21,279 --> 01:29:19,010
things we got it in our possession the

2051
01:29:23,140 --> 01:29:21,289
theory being fair date is that there

2052
01:29:25,299 --> 01:29:23,150
should have been some publicity beyond

2053
01:29:27,250 --> 01:29:25,309
the Scully book early on we have Scott

2054
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:27,260
and Suzanne Ramsey with Jean and Chris

2055
01:29:31,650 --> 01:29:38,180
[Music]

2056
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2132
01:32:46,430 --> 01:32:43,230
9 3 6 7 8 that's eight six six three six

2133
01:32:51,470 --> 01:32:46,440
nine three six seven eight pro em1 the

2134
01:32:54,470 --> 01:32:51,480
raw probiotic attention - criminals

2135
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:54,480
thugs and thieves go ahead break a leg

2136
01:32:59,240 --> 01:32:56,880
American homeowners are fed up with your

2137
01:33:01,400 --> 01:32:59,250
door kick hands enforce entries we now

2138
01:33:03,770 --> 01:33:01,410
dare you to try your boot against any

2139
01:33:04,390 --> 01:33:03,780
door reinforced with that door Sentinel

2140
01:33:06,610 --> 01:33:04,400
the

2141
01:33:08,530 --> 01:33:06,620
nope a concludes a steel door jam plate

2142
01:33:10,780 --> 01:33:08,540
with three and a half inch screws a lock

2143
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:10,790
shield and hinged shields the door

2144
01:33:15,729 --> 01:33:13,010
Sentinel installs in minutes securing

2145
01:33:18,070 --> 01:33:15,739
any front side or back doors even French

2146
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:18,080
doors criminals be forewarned your lake

2147
01:33:22,300 --> 01:33:20,330
will break before the door Sentinel will

2148
01:33:24,700 --> 01:33:22,310
budge even if you have an alarm system

2149
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:24,710
back it up with the door Sentinel basic

2150
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:27,050
products starting under $20 order your

2151
01:33:31,209 --> 01:33:29,210
door set note today for your home garage

2152
01:33:34,630 --> 01:33:31,219
or any building you own or rent at my

2153
01:33:37,149 --> 01:33:34,640
safe door comm that's my safe door comm

2154
01:33:40,060 --> 01:33:37,159
or call six seven eight six four eight

2155
01:33:42,220 --> 01:33:40,070
six seven five seven that's six seven

2156
01:33:44,470 --> 01:33:42,230
eight six four eight six seven five

2157
01:33:51,190 --> 01:33:44,480
seven get your peace of mind back with

2158
01:34:05,200 --> 01:33:58,620
[Music]

2159
01:34:07,090 --> 01:34:05,210
we have Suzanne Ramsey Suzanne kind of

2160
01:34:09,459 --> 01:34:07,100
taking over the call for a few moments

2161
01:34:12,370 --> 01:34:09,469
as we continue with our exploration with

2162
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:12,380
Jeanne and Chris into the Aztek incident

2163
01:34:16,030 --> 01:34:13,610
in 1948

2164
01:34:18,459 --> 01:34:16,040
now you having grown up in that area

2165
01:34:20,380 --> 01:34:18,469
Suzanne what was your take on this had

2166
01:34:21,780 --> 01:34:20,390
you heard anything about it before you

2167
01:34:25,209 --> 01:34:21,790
met Scott and began this journey

2168
01:34:27,250 --> 01:34:25,219
actually I was originally from Chicago

2169
01:34:29,770 --> 01:34:27,260
moved to South Dakota and then from

2170
01:34:31,990 --> 01:34:29,780
there had lived several places and my

2171
01:34:35,110 --> 01:34:32,000
parents were going to move to a warmer

2172
01:34:39,610 --> 01:34:35,120
climate from South Dakota I can see that

2173
01:34:40,959 --> 01:34:39,620
oh yeah and my mother I remember I must

2174
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:40,969
have been I'm gonna guess about to say

2175
01:34:47,500 --> 01:34:43,850
age of 8 had I remember her reading

2176
01:34:49,810 --> 01:34:47,510
Scully's book now I think the book was

2177
01:34:53,169 --> 01:34:49,820
like 16 years old by that time but I

2178
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:53,179
remember her reading the book and

2179
01:34:58,090 --> 01:34:55,250
talking about around the dinner table

2180
01:35:00,040 --> 01:34:58,100
and you have to keep in mind that that

2181
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:00,050
was not an era where you spoke about

2182
01:35:03,399 --> 01:35:01,370
things like that a lot there just

2183
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:03,409
weren't as common as and everyday as

2184
01:35:08,830 --> 01:35:07,280
they are today and so that's kind of

2185
01:35:10,149 --> 01:35:08,840
where the topic came up and then after

2186
01:35:11,709 --> 01:35:10,159
she finished reading the book you know

2187
01:35:14,110 --> 01:35:11,719
there were other things to go on too and

2188
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:14,120
years later when they decided to move

2189
01:35:17,569 --> 01:35:16,880
they gave me a call I was living

2190
01:35:19,669 --> 01:35:17,579
elsewhere and

2191
01:35:21,589 --> 01:35:19,679
could you help us move down and we're

2192
01:35:24,169 --> 01:35:21,599
looking for someplace in the southwest

2193
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:24,179
where it's warmer and as they looked at

2194
01:35:28,250 --> 01:35:26,489
different locations the one that kept

2195
01:35:30,859 --> 01:35:28,260
coming up in their mind was my mom said

2196
01:35:33,020 --> 01:35:30,869
I was so fascinated by the book I read

2197
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:33,030
years ago about the Aztec you know

2198
01:35:38,779 --> 01:35:36,239
incident she said I really would be

2199
01:35:40,310 --> 01:35:38,789
interested in in living in that area and

2200
01:35:42,469 --> 01:35:40,320
just you know getting to know more about

2201
01:35:43,699 --> 01:35:42,479
it well of course there were a lot of

2202
01:35:46,419 --> 01:35:43,709
things to consider and they did

2203
01:35:48,979 --> 01:35:46,429
eventually end up moving there and and

2204
01:35:51,079 --> 01:35:48,989
it enjoyed their life very much but one

2205
01:35:52,699 --> 01:35:51,089
of the disappointments was that nobody

2206
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:52,709
talked about it it was as if it never

2207
01:35:57,259 --> 01:35:55,050
happened I mean could you physically go

2208
01:35:59,000 --> 01:35:57,269
to someplace where did you and say hey

2209
01:36:02,449 --> 01:35:59,010
do you have any information about this

2210
01:36:05,179 --> 01:36:02,459
alleged UFO crash years ago nobody no

2211
01:36:09,219 --> 01:36:05,189
nothing nothing at all did you ask I

2212
01:36:11,869 --> 01:36:09,229
know she did that she did okay and and

2213
01:36:15,919 --> 01:36:11,879
there was just nothing nothing talking

2214
01:36:18,889 --> 01:36:15,929
spoken about it at all and then what

2215
01:36:20,959 --> 01:36:18,899
started to happen was there was a what

2216
01:36:23,989 --> 01:36:20,969
kind of brought this back up again I

2217
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:23,999
guess the topic was several books as if

2218
01:36:28,579 --> 01:36:25,530
Scott has discussed with you but also

2219
01:36:30,500 --> 01:36:28,589
the fact that LeeAnn Hathcock she was

2220
01:36:33,319 --> 01:36:30,510
the director of the library in town

2221
01:36:36,049 --> 01:36:33,329
wanted to do some type of a fundraiser

2222
01:36:39,799 --> 01:36:36,059
that would be unique public library were

2223
01:36:41,540 --> 01:36:39,809
talking about here yes and they needed

2224
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:41,550
to do a fundraiser to build the building

2225
01:36:47,359 --> 01:36:44,010
well it's funny how it kicked something

2226
01:36:50,089 --> 01:36:47,369
off that that had not really had much

2227
01:36:53,540 --> 01:36:50,099
attention called to it and over the

2228
01:36:56,989 --> 01:36:53,550
years doing this symposium and bringing

2229
01:37:01,520 --> 01:36:56,999
speakers in and having it and to

2230
01:37:03,739 --> 01:37:01,530
celebrate this particular event has you

2231
01:37:05,750 --> 01:37:03,749
know at pluses and minuses to it a lot

2232
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:05,760
of people are really excited about it

2233
01:37:10,369 --> 01:37:07,679
and fascinated by it from all over the

2234
01:37:13,310 --> 01:37:10,379
world as well as people in the area that

2235
01:37:16,069 --> 01:37:13,320
are not so inclined to I think that the

2236
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:16,079
the concerns that the people that were

2237
01:37:21,799 --> 01:37:18,510
on site had of course as you discuss

2238
01:37:24,290 --> 01:37:21,809
with Scott were that you know there were

2239
01:37:26,109 --> 01:37:24,300
military had mentioned to the folks

2240
01:37:29,299 --> 01:37:26,119
actually more than mentioned but

2241
01:37:31,259 --> 01:37:29,309
persuaded them not to discuss this and

2242
01:37:33,180 --> 01:37:31,269
you know there's a lot of pressure

2243
01:37:35,540 --> 01:37:33,190
and this was a different era when the

2244
01:37:37,890 --> 01:37:35,550
military said something you did it and

2245
01:37:40,229 --> 01:37:37,900
they were concerned about the well-being

2246
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:40,239
of their family and their friends so it

2247
01:37:45,660 --> 01:37:42,730
put a squelch on everything as if it

2248
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:45,670
didn't happen and years later I was

2249
01:37:50,220 --> 01:37:47,170
talking to a woman who was a journalist

2250
01:37:52,770 --> 01:37:50,230
and I was I said I know that you have

2251
01:37:54,899 --> 01:37:52,780
some information on this and I said I've

2252
01:37:57,089 --> 01:37:54,909
done my own research and and at that

2253
01:37:58,799 --> 01:37:57,099
time Scott and I were married and I said

2254
01:38:00,000 --> 01:37:58,809
but and and Scott's been doing research

2255
01:38:02,040 --> 01:38:00,010
but I know you have some information

2256
01:38:05,250 --> 01:38:02,050
because you started to write about this

2257
01:38:06,839 --> 01:38:05,260
and and the woman said to me on the

2258
01:38:09,899 --> 01:38:06,849
phone she said and she was at a mature

2259
01:38:12,299 --> 01:38:09,909
age lady and and quite an elegant lady

2260
01:38:14,609 --> 01:38:12,309
the statement was no good can come from

2261
01:38:16,589 --> 01:38:14,619
this I spend time on this no good can

2262
01:38:17,970 --> 01:38:16,599
come from this and I said well and she

2263
01:38:20,339 --> 01:38:17,980
said you need to just stop this right

2264
01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:20,349
now Suzanne and I said I understand your

2265
01:38:25,649 --> 01:38:22,510
concerns I appreciate you you know

2266
01:38:28,049 --> 01:38:25,659
sharing that and we'll proceed with

2267
01:38:31,049 --> 01:38:28,059
caution but you know this is what we're

2268
01:38:33,180 --> 01:38:31,059
doing and she was very disappointed to

2269
01:38:37,169 --> 01:38:33,190
hear that now this is also interesting

2270
01:38:40,529 --> 01:38:37,179
here too all these years nobody even

2271
01:38:42,899 --> 01:38:40,539
whispered anything before say Bill

2272
01:38:44,970 --> 01:38:42,909
Steinman started investigating in you

2273
01:38:47,250 --> 01:38:44,980
and Scott start messy nobody said a

2274
01:38:49,169 --> 01:38:47,260
thing there were no military authorities

2275
01:38:52,140 --> 01:38:49,179
coming to check things over no men in

2276
01:38:53,220 --> 01:38:52,150
black nothing nothing happened I really

2277
01:38:55,529 --> 01:38:53,230
think that the pressure that the

2278
01:38:58,290 --> 01:38:55,539
witnesses were put under had everything

2279
01:39:02,879 --> 01:38:58,300
to do with that again keep in mind this

2280
01:39:05,430 --> 01:39:02,889
was in 1948 there were very few phones

2281
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:05,440
not a lot of communication I mean it's a

2282
01:39:09,470 --> 01:39:07,690
desolate area not the city of astok

2283
01:39:12,540 --> 01:39:09,480
itself but out where the crash happened

2284
01:39:15,919 --> 01:39:12,550
there but it's still it's a pretty

2285
01:39:22,709 --> 01:39:15,929
remote area never build a it's remote

2286
01:39:24,689 --> 01:39:22,719
yeah yeah 2008 oh that's right that's

2287
01:39:27,629 --> 01:39:24,699
right I'm sorry you're right that's

2288
01:39:30,750 --> 01:39:27,639
right um so it is it's pretty isolated

2289
01:39:34,709 --> 01:39:30,760
out there it's beautiful but it's you

2290
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:34,719
know and you think back to you know 1948

2291
01:39:40,229 --> 01:39:36,730
in the book in the back of the book just

2292
01:39:42,629 --> 01:39:40,239
for fun we put some pictures of kind of

2293
01:39:43,930 --> 01:39:42,639
what Aztec was like not specifically in

2294
01:39:47,290 --> 01:39:43,940
that era but

2295
01:39:49,870 --> 01:39:47,300
you know random pictures of what it was

2296
01:39:51,670 --> 01:39:49,880
like and if being in the West it's more

2297
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:51,680
isolated too you know we live in the

2298
01:39:56,380 --> 01:39:54,530
East now and you know an East Coast and

2299
01:39:58,060 --> 01:39:56,390
there's more population it's more

2300
01:40:02,050 --> 01:39:58,070
densely populated out there it wasn't

2301
01:40:04,650 --> 01:40:02,060
and so I got boys an Indian it won't you

2302
01:40:06,340 --> 01:40:04,660
know honestly I have a picture of

2303
01:40:08,860 --> 01:40:06,350
downtown Mainstreet

2304
01:40:10,990 --> 01:40:08,870
at one point and it's one of my favorite

2305
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:11,000
pictures of all time is it's a picture

2306
01:40:16,570 --> 01:40:14,570
of them hurting Buffalo down Main Street

2307
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:16,580
in a snow it sounds like a western movie

2308
01:40:21,729 --> 01:40:19,489
listen let's move into the crash site

2309
01:40:24,070 --> 01:40:21,739
okay so they leave the crash site and

2310
01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:24,080
obviously at some point in time it's no

2311
01:40:30,070 --> 01:40:27,650
longer there so if you check the site as

2312
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:30,080
you have done is the assignment is done

2313
01:40:35,380 --> 01:40:32,570
as people have done what do you find

2314
01:40:37,450 --> 01:40:35,390
there now currently you mean today when

2315
01:40:40,060 --> 01:40:37,460
you start investigating this particular

2316
01:40:42,700 --> 01:40:40,070
case what did you see at the site well

2317
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:42,710
it's again it's a desolate area it's a

2318
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:46,730
it's a Mesa and for those of you that

2319
01:40:51,010 --> 01:40:48,170
aren't familiar what a Mesa the term

2320
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:51,020
Mesa means it's like a hill and but it's

2321
01:40:56,950 --> 01:40:54,130
got some cliffs and Bluffs around it and

2322
01:40:59,740 --> 01:40:56,960
it's pretty high up so that you can see

2323
01:41:02,800 --> 01:40:59,750
into Colorado seas from the Colorado

2324
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:02,810
mountains it's a dusty road and at that

2325
01:41:07,060 --> 01:41:04,610
time there was a dusty road leading up

2326
01:41:11,709 --> 01:41:07,070
to it and that's about all you could see

2327
01:41:15,070 --> 01:41:11,719
in time we were able to Randy Barnes

2328
01:41:18,220 --> 01:41:15,080
went in and and did what did what did he

2329
01:41:21,610 --> 01:41:18,230
use to get rid of it so that's right he

2330
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:21,620
poked with that with a stick or a rod

2331
01:41:29,530 --> 01:41:26,330
into the sand to find the cement slab

2332
01:41:30,970 --> 01:41:29,540
and I had to step away for a moment and

2333
01:41:32,709 --> 01:41:30,980
I don't know if Scott discussed the

2334
01:41:34,689 --> 01:41:32,719
cement slab did he have a chance to

2335
01:41:36,490 --> 01:41:34,699
describe that to you we've gotten to the

2336
01:41:39,820 --> 01:41:36,500
point of talking about what's left so

2337
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:39,830
the key is what's left and has anyone

2338
01:41:45,340 --> 01:41:43,850
taken any readings or samples soil

2339
01:41:48,100 --> 01:41:45,350
samples whatever to see if there's

2340
01:41:50,170 --> 01:41:48,110
anything unusual well the the readings

2341
01:41:52,450 --> 01:41:50,180
there have been readings that have done

2342
01:41:55,919 --> 01:41:52,460
and been done and there have been things

2343
01:41:57,040 --> 01:41:55,929
that have been found some Oh military

2344
01:42:00,010 --> 01:41:57,050
little

2345
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:00,020
Nixon acts you know things from MREs or

2346
01:42:04,270 --> 01:42:01,970
whatever out there but that that could

2347
01:42:07,660 --> 01:42:04,280
be explained honestly from hunters or

2348
01:42:09,940 --> 01:42:07,670
anything else but the cement slab that

2349
01:42:12,910 --> 01:42:09,950
is there yeah that's the most enigmatic

2350
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:12,920
feature that's I'm sorry I couldn't hear

2351
01:42:19,570 --> 01:42:15,650
you that's the most enigmatic feature

2352
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:19,580
that's there is the videos well it's no

2353
01:42:23,860 --> 01:42:21,920
reason at all for that no reason for it

2354
01:42:26,380 --> 01:42:23,870
to be there there is absolutely no

2355
01:42:28,180 --> 01:42:26,390
reason and describe this Amanda yeah

2356
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:28,190
let's talk about that what it looks like

2357
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:34,250
okay it's um the cement slab is about 1

2358
01:42:41,220 --> 01:42:37,370
meter square and what we've done is had

2359
01:42:44,530 --> 01:42:41,230
some tests done on it to see you know

2360
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:44,540
just get gather information on it itself

2361
01:42:49,690 --> 01:42:48,050
and that we've gotten to a point but

2362
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:49,700
it's very very expensive to have an

2363
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:51,770
analysis done what we do know so far is

2364
01:43:00,250 --> 01:42:55,970
that the rebar in in this slab is from

2365
01:43:02,860 --> 01:43:00,260
that area of time around 1948 now when

2366
01:43:05,350 --> 01:43:02,870
they make rebar and it is from the sand

2367
01:43:09,970 --> 01:43:05,360
and that the cement was made from was

2368
01:43:11,380 --> 01:43:09,980
from the area of Vaz Tech so what that

2369
01:43:14,310 --> 01:43:11,390
tells you you think well it isn't that

2370
01:43:17,950 --> 01:43:14,320
common or does that how does that help

2371
01:43:19,780 --> 01:43:17,960
rebar is made and they they usually keep

2372
01:43:23,530 --> 01:43:19,790
it within a couple year period so you

2373
01:43:25,090 --> 01:43:23,540
can isolate it to a point but it's it's

2374
01:43:28,090 --> 01:43:25,100
still there a lot of people have chipped

2375
01:43:30,850 --> 01:43:28,100
chipped pieces off of it and had

2376
01:43:32,740 --> 01:43:30,860
souvenirs taken and things and but which

2377
01:43:33,910 --> 01:43:32,750
is disappointing but you know I guess

2378
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:33,920
it's that you want a piece of the action

2379
01:43:38,370 --> 01:43:35,690
or so this is something that would have

2380
01:43:44,350 --> 01:43:38,380
to be built or was it there naturally

2381
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:44,360
dismissal at something okay so I am not

2382
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:45,770
somebody who does construction I want

2383
01:43:51,220 --> 01:43:47,810
this to be explained so okay so we have

2384
01:43:55,450 --> 01:43:51,230
this cement slab that's left there it's

2385
01:43:57,970 --> 01:43:55,460
a remnant and we have to figure out why

2386
01:44:00,460 --> 01:43:57,980
it would be there what purpose is used

2387
01:44:02,530 --> 01:44:00,470
for and how this may connect with the

2388
01:44:05,110 --> 01:44:02,540
possible recovery of a flying saucer

2389
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:05,120
lots of stuff to go here with Scott and

2390
01:44:10,270 --> 01:44:07,370
Suzanne Ramsey and the book is called

2391
01:44:12,779 --> 01:44:10,280
the Aztec incident recovery and

2392
01:44:16,270 --> 01:44:12,789
heart Canyon and if you go to the Aztec

2393
01:44:17,709 --> 01:44:16,280
incident calm you can check out a sample

2394
01:44:19,870 --> 01:44:17,719
chapter of the book and maybe order a

2395
01:44:28,390 --> 01:44:19,880
copy with Scott and Suzanne Ramsey and

2396
01:44:30,850 --> 01:44:28,400
Jean and Chris you're in Erica are you

2397
01:44:34,180 --> 01:44:30,860
tired of searching for a great talk

2398
01:44:39,189 --> 01:44:34,190
radio more important search in overall

2399
01:44:40,660 --> 01:44:39,199
we are the GCM radio network hi Ted

2400
01:44:42,879 --> 01:44:40,670
Anderson announcing a great way to

2401
01:44:45,069 --> 01:44:42,889
listen to radio on the telephone by

2402
01:44:47,140 --> 01:44:45,079
calling seven six zero five six nine

2403
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:47,150
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

2404
01:44:52,180 --> 01:44:49,730
juicy and live calm programs in seconds

2405
01:44:54,549 --> 01:44:52,190
come to GC and live.com find your

2406
01:44:57,490 --> 01:44:54,559
favorite host dedicated phone number and

2407
01:44:59,979 --> 01:44:57,500
hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

2408
01:45:02,589 --> 01:44:59,989
show has a dedicated phone number stop

2409
01:45:04,899 --> 01:45:02,599
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

2410
01:45:07,319 --> 01:45:04,909
number today and again that's seven six

2411
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:07,329
zero five six nine seventy seven hundred

2412
01:45:11,290 --> 01:45:09,770
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

2413
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:11,300
wondered why banks stockbrokers

2414
01:45:14,709 --> 01:45:12,800
investment advisors won't talk about

2415
01:45:16,600 --> 01:45:14,719
gold IRAs they've been available since

2416
01:45:18,279 --> 01:45:16,610
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

2417
01:45:19,990 --> 01:45:18,289
industry won't recognize the value of

2418
01:45:21,939 --> 01:45:20,000
gold for your attire meant gold has

2419
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:21,949
outperformed paper investments yet no

2420
01:45:36,540 --> 01:45:23,840
word about IRAs if you would like to

2421
01:45:36,550 --> 01:45:40,710
806-853-9949

2422
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:44,069
[Music]

2423
01:45:52,109 --> 01:45:47,770
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2424
01:45:56,589 --> 01:45:52,119
standard of paranormal radio and now

2425
01:45:59,489 --> 01:45:56,599
here's Jane Steinberg we're trying to

2426
01:46:02,169 --> 01:45:59,499
figure out what happened at Hart Canyon

2427
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:02,179
Aztec New Mexico the book is called the

2428
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:04,730
Aztec incident recovery at Hart Canyon

2429
01:46:10,029 --> 01:46:07,010
we have Scott and suzanne ramsey suzanne

2430
01:46:12,489 --> 01:46:10,039
is telling us about the cement slab that

2431
01:46:14,140 --> 01:46:12,499
was left there okay a cement slab and

2432
01:46:16,509 --> 01:46:14,150
those of us who know nothing about

2433
01:46:19,029 --> 01:46:16,519
building anything can I can build radio

2434
01:46:22,989 --> 01:46:19,039
kiss I know nothing about building

2435
01:46:25,689 --> 01:46:22,999
houses or factories or industrial kind

2436
01:46:28,209 --> 01:46:25,699
of production tell me because I know

2437
01:46:31,180 --> 01:46:28,219
nothing about this process what would

2438
01:46:33,009 --> 01:46:31,190
you use this cement slab for let me let

2439
01:46:34,959 --> 01:46:33,019
me step back just a second and give you

2440
01:46:38,890 --> 01:46:34,969
a little more information you asked me

2441
01:46:40,919 --> 01:46:38,900
the question was initially what was what

2442
01:46:43,689 --> 01:46:40,929
would you see when you when we went to

2443
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:43,699
initially start to investigate that

2444
01:46:47,669 --> 01:46:45,170
crash site

2445
01:46:51,250 --> 01:46:47,679
there were some trees that were down

2446
01:46:54,609 --> 01:46:51,260
there were you know there was a cleared

2447
01:46:57,279 --> 01:46:54,619
space that had been cleared and there is

2448
01:47:00,489 --> 01:46:57,289
a cement slab that's adjacent to it and

2449
01:47:03,069 --> 01:47:00,499
Scott just before the two of us got

2450
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:03,079
together Scott interviewed a gentleman

2451
01:47:06,939 --> 01:47:05,090
that he was able to track through some

2452
01:47:09,220 --> 01:47:06,949
fascinating research I mean I don't know

2453
01:47:12,370 --> 01:47:09,230
how he picked this out but he was able

2454
01:47:15,479 --> 01:47:12,380
to locate a gentleman that was the

2455
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:15,489
procurement officer that would procure

2456
01:47:20,290 --> 01:47:18,170
items that you would need on location

2457
01:47:22,689 --> 01:47:20,300
and you know disasters and things came

2458
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:22,699
up he was the person that would ship out

2459
01:47:27,459 --> 01:47:24,050
make sure that you got everything that

2460
01:47:29,919 --> 01:47:27,469
you needed and Scott was able to locate

2461
01:47:32,200 --> 01:47:29,929
him he's on the East Coast and went and

2462
01:47:35,049 --> 01:47:32,210
visited with him now at this point an

2463
01:47:37,060 --> 01:47:35,059
elderly man and said can you help me

2464
01:47:40,089 --> 01:47:37,070
with what happened I see that you got

2465
01:47:42,370 --> 01:47:40,099
all the good reports and you got you had

2466
01:47:44,799 --> 01:47:42,380
access to all this information and the

2467
01:47:46,450 --> 01:47:44,809
gentleman was cautious at first but did

2468
01:47:49,779 --> 01:47:46,460
share some things and one of the things

2469
01:47:52,479 --> 01:47:49,789
that he said is that he actually saw

2470
01:47:54,270 --> 01:47:52,489
pictures of the craft he never was able

2471
01:47:59,160 --> 01:47:54,280
to go to the

2472
01:48:01,410 --> 01:47:59,170
but he sent out information and and

2473
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:01,420
equipment for what they would need and

2474
01:48:05,250 --> 01:48:03,010
one of the things that he said you will

2475
01:48:08,010 --> 01:48:05,260
know that you found the right spot when

2476
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:08,020
you find a cement slab and Scott

2477
01:48:11,670 --> 01:48:09,370
statement was in the middle of the

2478
01:48:13,230 --> 01:48:11,680
desert and he said yes that's where

2479
01:48:15,090 --> 01:48:13,240
you'll know that it's so strange there's

2480
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:15,100
nothing else around you'll see a little

2481
01:48:19,470 --> 01:48:17,650
road that's not going to be on any of

2482
01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:19,480
the maps or anything and then you'll see

2483
01:48:26,670 --> 01:48:23,530
the cement slab and he described that

2484
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:26,680
because of the filthy ground in order to

2485
01:48:31,380 --> 01:48:28,930
move the craft they had to bring in a

2486
01:48:33,750 --> 01:48:31,390
crane okay so this guy saw a picture of

2487
01:48:36,120 --> 01:48:33,760
the crash UFO but there are no pictures

2488
01:48:40,170 --> 01:48:36,130
that anyone can find no we have never

2489
01:48:43,050 --> 01:48:40,180
okay but what he said is that because of

2490
01:48:44,670 --> 01:48:43,060
the silty ground with the crane when

2491
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:44,680
they would try to lift up something of

2492
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:46,810
this size you know keep in mind you know

2493
01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:50,770
100 foot that it it kept sliding so what

2494
01:48:56,730 --> 01:48:53,410
they had to do was lay a cement slab for

2495
01:48:58,500 --> 01:48:56,740
the crane to balance itself on so that

2496
01:49:00,030 --> 01:48:58,510
they could lift it you know solid ground

2497
01:49:02,580 --> 01:49:00,040
in other words they had to create an

2498
01:49:04,830 --> 01:49:02,590
artificial solid ground and so and they

2499
01:49:07,380 --> 01:49:04,840
had to build a road to get to it so

2500
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:07,390
these were definitive things that's what

2501
01:49:13,890 --> 01:49:09,970
caused Scott and Randy Barnes to go

2502
01:49:16,050 --> 01:49:13,900
looking for this cement slab and at the

2503
01:49:18,810 --> 01:49:16,060
area that seemed to be where the crash

2504
01:49:20,940 --> 01:49:18,820
had happened there was no cement slab so

2505
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:20,950
they started poking with rods to try and

2506
01:49:25,380 --> 01:49:23,290
locate this and so that I'm just trying

2507
01:49:28,740 --> 01:49:25,390
to kind of walk you through the steps of

2508
01:49:31,110 --> 01:49:28,750
what you know how we knew to look for

2509
01:49:33,180 --> 01:49:31,120
that so that is something and then since

2510
01:49:37,290 --> 01:49:33,190
then not only if we had analysis was

2511
01:49:39,150 --> 01:49:37,300
done but we also have have brought in

2512
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:39,160
people from the area that would be

2513
01:49:43,740 --> 01:49:41,650
experts in the field to say is there any

2514
01:49:45,570 --> 01:49:43,750
reason that a cement slab would be here

2515
01:49:48,570 --> 01:49:45,580
and they said absolutely no so it'd have

2516
01:49:51,870 --> 01:49:48,580
to be strictly for helping to move a

2517
01:49:53,820 --> 01:49:51,880
very very heavy object heavy object

2518
01:49:55,500 --> 01:49:53,830
exactly okay we have two became and

2519
01:49:58,170 --> 01:49:55,510
begin to imagine what this thing weighed

2520
01:50:00,090 --> 01:49:58,180
a hundred feet in diameter we have no

2521
01:50:01,590 --> 01:50:00,100
idea it could be light as a feather

2522
01:50:04,170 --> 01:50:01,600
because of the construction in the

2523
01:50:06,510 --> 01:50:04,180
metallic material we have no idea but

2524
01:50:07,440 --> 01:50:06,520
the question is here a hundred feet can

2525
01:50:10,470 --> 01:50:07,450
you carry

2526
01:50:13,140 --> 01:50:10,480
thing in one piece what would you do put

2527
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:13,150
it on some kind of wheels or what no

2528
01:50:16,530 --> 01:50:14,290
that's a very that's a very good

2529
01:50:17,850 --> 01:50:16,540
question and and it's funny we actually

2530
01:50:19,740 --> 01:50:17,860
had gotten to the point that we thought

2531
01:50:21,990 --> 01:50:19,750
you know we'll probably have the book

2532
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:22,000
winding up and and one day Scott came to

2533
01:50:25,590 --> 01:50:23,770
me and he said you know there's an area

2534
01:50:27,330 --> 01:50:25,600
we haven't uncovered and I said what's

2535
01:50:29,370 --> 01:50:27,340
that and I have to keep in mind hundreds

2536
01:50:31,740 --> 01:50:29,380
of thousands of dollars and traveled all

2537
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:31,750
over the country and and have spoken

2538
01:50:37,860 --> 01:50:34,930
about this topic we'll be married in

2539
01:50:40,380 --> 01:50:37,870
October 9 years and so since we've been

2540
01:50:42,630 --> 01:50:40,390
together we have spoken about this and

2541
01:50:44,670 --> 01:50:42,640
worked on this project every single day

2542
01:50:46,590 --> 01:50:44,680
all but two days of our honeymoon so

2543
01:50:50,190 --> 01:50:46,600
obviously this is like a big part of our

2544
01:50:53,190 --> 01:50:50,200
life but he came to me and he said we're

2545
01:50:55,230 --> 01:50:53,200
getting close but he said we need to

2546
01:50:57,570 --> 01:50:55,240
figure out how they got it out of there

2547
01:50:59,880 --> 01:50:57,580
and we need to see if it's even feasible

2548
01:51:02,010 --> 01:50:59,890
because he said you know skeptics are

2549
01:51:04,350 --> 01:51:02,020
gonna be honest about it and he said and

2550
01:51:06,990 --> 01:51:04,360
most of all I want to know I need to

2551
01:51:09,270 --> 01:51:07,000
know that and I said holy cats do you

2552
01:51:12,270 --> 01:51:09,280
know what that's going to cost us but we

2553
01:51:15,030 --> 01:51:12,280
did it and we hired one of the an

2554
01:51:18,060 --> 01:51:15,040
experts that he's world renowned on

2555
01:51:21,570 --> 01:51:18,070
moving heavy objects and and large

2556
01:51:23,370 --> 01:51:21,580
object objects and so and by different

2557
01:51:27,810 --> 01:51:23,380
means different types of transportation

2558
01:51:29,130 --> 01:51:27,820
and he you know was what we also wanted

2559
01:51:32,310 --> 01:51:29,140
to do and we've done with all of our

2560
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:32,320
experts is try to get people that don't

2561
01:51:36,810 --> 01:51:34,930
give a hoot about UFOs they're not oh we

2562
01:51:39,540 --> 01:51:36,820
want to make this happen because that's

2563
01:51:41,730 --> 01:51:39,550
not how we are if it's a legitimate case

2564
01:51:43,410 --> 01:51:41,740
and it's a legitimate legitimate case if

2565
01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:43,420
it's not then it's not that's all there

2566
01:51:47,220 --> 01:51:44,050
is to it

2567
01:51:49,440 --> 01:51:47,230
and and so we're not expecting riches

2568
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:49,450
from this because there's no way if you

2569
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:52,090
sell 1,100 copies of this book and the

2570
01:51:56,010 --> 01:51:53,410
list price of the book is twenty four

2571
01:51:58,260 --> 01:51:56,020
ninety five you sell that you're talking

2572
01:52:00,750 --> 01:51:58,270
about twenty four thousand nine hundred

2573
01:52:03,510 --> 01:52:00,760
fifty dollars and you spent what a half

2574
01:52:06,660 --> 01:52:03,520
million dollars on this yeah exactly so

2575
01:52:09,930 --> 01:52:06,670
yeah so you know it the the key for us

2576
01:52:12,060 --> 01:52:09,940
was unlocking that knowledge as opposed

2577
01:52:13,230 --> 01:52:12,070
to anything else honestly you know it's

2578
01:52:15,480 --> 01:52:13,240
it's we're not going to try and convince

2579
01:52:18,030 --> 01:52:15,490
you of anything but so we called in this

2580
01:52:20,130 --> 01:52:18,040
gentleman bill Metzger and and discussed

2581
01:52:20,759 --> 01:52:20,140
it with him and said you know we have it

2582
01:52:22,229 --> 01:52:20,769
we need to know

2583
01:52:25,199 --> 01:52:22,239
this object didn't tell him what it was

2584
01:52:27,179 --> 01:52:25,209
and and he was you know okay alright

2585
01:52:30,569 --> 01:52:27,189
I'll fly out there I'll get out there to

2586
01:52:33,359 --> 01:52:30,579
New Mexico and and and we'll actually

2587
01:52:37,019 --> 01:52:33,369
reenact it and I'll see if it's feasible

2588
01:52:39,659 --> 01:52:37,029
with the roads and with the equipment

2589
01:52:41,309 --> 01:52:39,669
that they had at that time to move

2590
01:52:44,099 --> 01:52:41,319
things my god and because of the sparse

2591
01:52:47,759 --> 01:52:44,109
population people just wouldn't notice

2592
01:52:50,759 --> 01:52:47,769
well the big thing is if you went about

2593
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:50,769
it and you just based it on today's

2594
01:52:56,189 --> 01:52:54,010
roads people would see it but if you

2595
01:52:58,229 --> 01:52:56,199
went with the roads that existed at that

2596
01:53:01,019 --> 01:52:58,239
time and that's where as both of you

2597
01:53:02,549 --> 01:53:01,029
know being researchers you have to dig

2598
01:53:03,719 --> 01:53:02,559
deeper it's not just something well

2599
01:53:06,389 --> 01:53:03,729
let's just pull this up on the internet

2600
01:53:08,609 --> 01:53:06,399
you really have to go into archives and

2601
01:53:10,949 --> 01:53:08,619
spend time trying to know is this after

2602
01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:10,959
it information and and everyone kept

2603
01:53:14,189 --> 01:53:12,249
saying oh well you couldn't do it today

2604
01:53:15,689 --> 01:53:14,199
you couldn't do today well of course but

2605
01:53:17,789 --> 01:53:15,699
with the roads of course they were

2606
01:53:20,819 --> 01:53:17,799
unimproved roads they weren't paved or

2607
01:53:23,250 --> 01:53:20,829
anything back in that day but they were

2608
01:53:25,049 --> 01:53:23,260
back road and that's all that really

2609
01:53:27,779 --> 01:53:25,059
exists and you have to get lucky that

2610
01:53:29,759 --> 01:53:27,789
maybe a farmer didn't come rushing by to

2611
01:53:33,179 --> 01:53:29,769
see what was going on and maybe if they

2612
01:53:34,649 --> 01:53:33,189
did they'd be asked to be quiet about

2613
01:53:35,759 --> 01:53:34,659
well and you would never know you know

2614
01:53:38,399 --> 01:53:35,769
there's no way we'll ever know that

2615
01:53:40,949 --> 01:53:38,409
there's just no way but in Scully's book

2616
01:53:43,379 --> 01:53:40,959
he describes that it was taken apart in

2617
01:53:45,569 --> 01:53:43,389
three sections and then okay that's the

2618
01:53:47,899 --> 01:53:45,579
one thing I have a problem about okay

2619
01:53:51,599 --> 01:53:47,909
we're talking about a relatively intact

2620
01:53:55,139 --> 01:53:51,609
perfectly formed craft of unknown weight

2621
01:53:57,299 --> 01:53:55,149
how the heck do you disassemble it you

2622
01:53:59,819 --> 01:53:57,309
know the picture that I have and this

2623
01:54:02,639 --> 01:53:59,829
may not be the most accurate but I think

2624
01:54:06,959 --> 01:54:02,649
of it fit together like a piece of

2625
01:54:08,909 --> 01:54:06,969
puzzle pieces of puzzle so they were and

2626
01:54:11,159 --> 01:54:08,919
again this is my picture of my mind but

2627
01:54:12,869 --> 01:54:11,169
like tongue and groove so maybe the

2628
01:54:15,599 --> 01:54:12,879
original designers who were whatever

2629
01:54:17,009 --> 01:54:15,609
they made have been built it in sections

2630
01:54:21,059 --> 01:54:17,019
and you had to find a way to take it

2631
01:54:22,500 --> 01:54:21,069
apart but using 1948 technology was

2632
01:54:23,939 --> 01:54:22,510
something that may have been built with

2633
01:54:26,159 --> 01:54:23,949
technology that's hundreds of years

2634
01:54:28,109 --> 01:54:26,169
ahead of us that's where I have problems

2635
01:54:30,719 --> 01:54:28,119
that's why I'm hoping you'll explain

2636
01:54:33,379 --> 01:54:30,729
this to me well and and so what we ended

2637
01:54:37,189 --> 01:54:33,389
up doing was then taking it apart

2638
01:54:38,990 --> 01:54:37,199
and and then pudding and then moving it

2639
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:39,000
out but we're assuming it's being taken

2640
01:54:44,359 --> 01:54:41,610
apart but once again did anyone tell you

2641
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:44,369
how do you take this thing apart I think

2642
01:54:47,780 --> 01:54:45,810
that's where we have to kind of go

2643
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:47,790
before we go once you take it apart I

2644
01:54:55,490 --> 01:54:52,170
guess you can lay you think a welding

2645
01:54:57,830 --> 01:54:55,500
torch would do it I mean how it was

2646
01:55:00,530 --> 01:54:57,840
actually taking apart pins and grooves

2647
01:55:01,729 --> 01:55:00,540
or tongue and grooves more is what you

2648
01:55:03,109 --> 01:55:01,739
would describe that's what I've got

2649
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:03,119
that's why I just ask Scott if he had a

2650
01:55:07,760 --> 01:55:05,130
better way to describe it but that's

2651
01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:07,770
that's why in my mind I picture it as

2652
01:55:14,090 --> 01:55:10,770
like a puzzle you know pieces that slid

2653
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:14,100
out from each other you know I I can't

2654
01:55:16,399 --> 01:55:14,730
explain it

2655
01:55:19,100 --> 01:55:16,409
we're assuming here they found a way to

2656
01:55:20,300 --> 01:55:19,110
disassemble this thing and to transport

2657
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because otherwise they couldn't have

2658
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done it or would have had to find a way

2659
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to take it intact we have Scott and

2660
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Suzanne Ramsey with Jean and Chris

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2766
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2767
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News

2768
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Parrikar scoff that's news at the para

2769
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caste dot-com and don't forget to visit

2770
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our famous para caste community forums

2771
02:00:00,360 --> 01:59:58,840
at forum dot the para cast dot-com so

2772
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:00,370
we're trying to figure out how they may

2773
02:00:07,170 --> 02:00:02,650
have taken a part of 100-foot Flying

2774
02:00:09,300 --> 02:00:07,180
Saucer using 1948 technology our guest

2775
02:00:12,210 --> 02:00:09,310
this week on the para cast are Scott and

2776
02:00:14,550 --> 02:00:12,220
Suzanne Ramsey authors of the Aztec

2777
02:00:17,550 --> 02:00:14,560
incident recovery at heart Canyon if you

2778
02:00:19,440 --> 02:00:17,560
go to the Aztec incident calm you can

2779
02:00:21,780 --> 02:00:19,450
check out and what are a copy with a

2780
02:00:23,460 --> 02:00:21,790
book for yourself so Suzanne I guess you

2781
02:00:26,310 --> 02:00:23,470
have to consider the difficulties and

2782
02:00:28,740 --> 02:00:26,320
understanding how they may have taken

2783
02:00:31,860 --> 02:00:28,750
this craft apart and pieces like a

2784
02:00:34,830 --> 02:00:31,870
puzzle so would they have used welding

2785
02:00:37,470 --> 02:00:34,840
equipment didn't know it actually now

2786
02:00:40,890 --> 02:00:37,480
keep in mind that and in another chapter

2787
02:00:42,870 --> 02:00:40,900
that we cover the and if you're familiar

2788
02:00:44,520 --> 02:00:42,880
with the story you'll know this name and

2789
02:00:46,200 --> 02:00:44,530
if you're not then this will be

2790
02:00:48,150 --> 02:00:46,210
something that you learn in the books is

2791
02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:48,160
that Scully had talked about nine

2792
02:00:53,160 --> 02:00:50,650
scientists that were brought in from all

2793
02:00:56,250 --> 02:00:53,170
over and they were the top scientists in

2794
02:00:59,070 --> 02:00:56,260
their fields and and to continued on in

2795
02:01:03,450 --> 02:00:59,080
life after this to accomplish tremendous

2796
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:03,460
things and we were able to identify them

2797
02:01:07,800 --> 02:01:06,010
and when you look at what their gifts

2798
02:01:11,070 --> 02:01:07,810
and talents are and what they've done

2799
02:01:12,660 --> 02:01:11,080
you see that it wouldn't be like and

2800
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:12,670
I'll speak for myself I won't speak for

2801
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:14,770
you two gentlemen but it wouldn't be

2802
02:01:18,390 --> 02:01:16,330
like me going up to this craft and

2803
02:01:20,910 --> 02:01:18,400
saying well maybe I'll just cut this so

2804
02:01:22,530 --> 02:01:20,920
you had the name of the nine scientists

2805
02:01:25,260 --> 02:01:22,540
in the book and the question would be

2806
02:01:26,850 --> 02:01:25,270
then did you try to make an effort to

2807
02:01:28,530 --> 02:01:26,860
contact these scientists and see what

2808
02:01:30,390 --> 02:01:28,540
they had to say or if they weren't

2809
02:01:32,040 --> 02:01:30,400
around and contact their heirs and see

2810
02:01:34,140 --> 02:01:32,050
what information you can get from them

2811
02:01:37,830 --> 02:01:34,150
we followed in and did research in

2812
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:37,840
archives we followed in to their

2813
02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:40,090
histories their backgrounds their travel

2814
02:01:46,650 --> 02:01:43,930
records to in depth as you possibly can

2815
02:01:48,330 --> 02:01:46,660
most of them in fact all of them one of

2816
02:01:50,670 --> 02:01:48,340
them was still alive and we had not

2817
02:01:52,950 --> 02:01:50,680
isolated him and he just died we

2818
02:01:55,020 --> 02:01:52,960
actually were on a plane and flying

2819
02:01:58,020 --> 02:01:55,030
cross-country and and

2820
02:01:59,730 --> 02:01:58,030
vantes obituary and he felt like he was

2821
02:02:02,640 --> 02:01:59,740
the one and then were able to identify

2822
02:02:04,170 --> 02:02:02,650
him so no his family members you know

2823
02:02:07,170 --> 02:02:04,180
they just don't really exist these

2824
02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:07,180
gentlemen were under such classified it

2825
02:02:12,660 --> 02:02:10,410
worked on such classified projects that

2826
02:02:14,310 --> 02:02:12,670
you know they wouldn't have been able to

2827
02:02:16,740 --> 02:02:14,320
discuss this with their family members

2828
02:02:20,160 --> 02:02:16,750
anyway so we have here nine scientists

2829
02:02:22,830 --> 02:02:20,170
who are working together a separately to

2830
02:02:25,890 --> 02:02:22,840
use cutting-edge technology in order to

2831
02:02:27,570 --> 02:02:25,900
disassemble a 100-foot flying saucer

2832
02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:27,580
where would you take them how would you

2833
02:02:31,590 --> 02:02:29,770
take them would you try to put them on a

2834
02:02:33,300 --> 02:02:31,600
railroad train I guess there's no

2835
02:02:36,330 --> 02:02:33,310
railroads near there would you try to

2836
02:02:37,800 --> 02:02:36,340
lift them by an airplane and take it to

2837
02:02:41,190 --> 02:02:37,810
the final destination where would you go

2838
02:02:43,590 --> 02:02:41,200
if you're the way that that and based on

2839
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:43,600
information that we gathered and then

2840
02:02:47,670 --> 02:02:45,370
actually physically went out and

2841
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:47,680
measured and reenacted over bridges over

2842
02:02:53,190 --> 02:02:51,850
over Hill and Dale frankly how to get

2843
02:02:54,900 --> 02:02:53,200
that craft out and that's what I'm

2844
02:02:59,430 --> 02:02:54,910
saying that's what was so costly to

2845
02:03:01,890 --> 02:02:59,440
reenact this and we to get it to a

2846
02:03:03,120 --> 02:03:01,900
location you know to move it by plane

2847
02:03:06,030 --> 02:03:03,130
there's just no way they could probably

2848
02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:06,040
do that back in those days but to get it

2849
02:03:12,120 --> 02:03:08,650
to Los Alamos keep in mind Los Alamos is

2850
02:03:14,310 --> 02:03:12,130
you know in eastern part of New Mexico

2851
02:03:17,970 --> 02:03:14,320
north northeastern part of New Mexico

2852
02:03:21,090 --> 02:03:17,980
and that would be a perfectly reasonable

2853
02:03:23,430 --> 02:03:21,100
place to go and and probably where they

2854
02:03:25,980 --> 02:03:23,440
took it so we have Los Alamos as a

2855
02:03:28,530 --> 02:03:25,990
possible destination here so did you

2856
02:03:31,110 --> 02:03:28,540
consider here that now we have a lot

2857
02:03:33,150 --> 02:03:31,120
more potential witnesses to the arrival

2858
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:33,160
of the strange craft did you make any

2859
02:03:37,260 --> 02:03:35,410
effort to try to reach out to find out

2860
02:03:39,180 --> 02:03:37,270
if there's anyone out there who would

2861
02:03:41,100 --> 02:03:39,190
have any memory of such a thing

2862
02:03:43,610 --> 02:03:41,110
or would we assume that because of the

2863
02:03:46,260 --> 02:03:43,620
people who were at the landing site

2864
02:03:48,510 --> 02:03:46,270
admonished to be secret about it the

2865
02:03:52,020 --> 02:03:48,520
same situation on steroids would apply

2866
02:03:54,900 --> 02:03:52,030
it Los Alamos gene honestly if you go to

2867
02:03:58,980 --> 02:03:54,910
Los Alamos and if you if you spend some

2868
02:04:02,790 --> 02:03:58,990
time there one building and even one

2869
02:04:05,370 --> 02:04:02,800
desk away does not have any idea what

2870
02:04:07,140 --> 02:04:05,380
the next guest is working on there their

2871
02:04:09,899 --> 02:04:07,150
customer of Scott's

2872
02:04:15,120 --> 02:04:09,909
and and so we know this from the inside

2873
02:04:16,919 --> 02:04:15,130
and and it is so carefully you know it's

2874
02:04:18,870 --> 02:04:16,929
secure I don't know how to explain it

2875
02:04:20,850 --> 02:04:18,880
and so there would be no reason that

2876
02:04:22,020 --> 02:04:20,860
these folks would discuss it so they

2877
02:04:24,149 --> 02:04:22,030
might have brought this stuff into a

2878
02:04:26,399 --> 02:04:24,159
hangar close the doors

2879
02:04:28,110 --> 02:04:26,409
told a few people who were taking apart

2880
02:04:31,709 --> 02:04:28,120
this craft what was going on

2881
02:04:34,260 --> 02:04:31,719
this happened in 1948 so the assumption

2882
02:04:37,260 --> 02:04:34,270
being if there was a craft there we've

2883
02:04:40,530 --> 02:04:37,270
got the cement slab and there's no craft

2884
02:04:43,320 --> 02:04:40,540
now well therefore somehow they moved it

2885
02:04:45,570 --> 02:04:43,330
from here to there and Los Alamos being

2886
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:45,580
I'm trying to follow the logic here Los

2887
02:04:50,220 --> 02:04:48,130
Alamos being the nearest installation

2888
02:04:53,100 --> 02:04:50,230
that would have the capability of

2889
02:04:54,390 --> 02:04:53,110
looking at what they got well that was

2890
02:04:56,280 --> 02:04:54,400
the place they went there first later

2891
02:04:58,020 --> 02:04:56,290
there - sure Kirtland Air Force Base

2892
02:05:00,090 --> 02:04:58,030
could they have taken it there would

2893
02:05:03,870 --> 02:05:00,100
there be oh those would be two very

2894
02:05:07,020 --> 02:05:03,880
reasonable very close facilities that

2895
02:05:09,840 --> 02:05:07,030
would have the ability to not only

2896
02:05:12,060 --> 02:05:09,850
conceal it but start to do whatever they

2897
02:05:14,310 --> 02:05:12,070
needed to to it and the scientists came

2898
02:05:16,350 --> 02:05:14,320
in through by way of Durango they flew

2899
02:05:18,390 --> 02:05:16,360
into Durango Colorado which is just a

2900
02:05:19,890 --> 02:05:18,400
few miles away from from a stick and

2901
02:05:22,110 --> 02:05:19,900
that's that's what it looks like that's

2902
02:05:25,290 --> 02:05:22,120
the tracking that we were able to do so

2903
02:05:28,370 --> 02:05:25,300
by tracking this we're seeing here the

2904
02:05:32,580 --> 02:05:28,380
potential that this was taken to

2905
02:05:34,229 --> 02:05:32,590
Kirkland or to Los Alamos years ago and

2906
02:05:37,680 --> 02:05:34,239
probably still there unless has been

2907
02:05:39,810 --> 02:05:37,690
moved I can't say that I wish I wish I

2908
02:05:42,450 --> 02:05:39,820
could tell you but I you know I can't

2909
02:05:44,010 --> 02:05:42,460
tell ya I don't I don't know but I will

2910
02:05:46,350 --> 02:05:44,020
say one thing that I wanted to mention

2911
02:05:48,930 --> 02:05:46,360
back when we were talking about the

2912
02:05:51,720 --> 02:05:48,940
witness that Scott interviewed on the

2913
02:05:53,250 --> 02:05:51,730
East Coast about the pyramid officer one

2914
02:05:56,939 --> 02:05:53,260
of the things that that was really

2915
02:06:00,810 --> 02:05:56,949
interesting was that he his statement

2916
02:06:03,390 --> 02:06:00,820
was one of his jobs was to make sure in

2917
02:06:05,340 --> 02:06:03,400
the records of all of the the people

2918
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:05,350
that were involved and there were about

2919
02:06:09,570 --> 02:06:07,810
two hundred over a couple week period on

2920
02:06:14,370 --> 02:06:09,580
the crash site two hundred military

2921
02:06:16,430 --> 02:06:14,380
people and his job was to and and I

2922
02:06:18,830 --> 02:06:16,440
believe the quote was put

2923
02:06:21,770 --> 02:06:18,840
in places so they could never be tracked

2924
02:06:23,660 --> 02:06:21,780
to this like you know if you were out

2925
02:06:25,550 --> 02:06:23,670
playing softball and you twisted your

2926
02:06:28,250 --> 02:06:25,560
ankle and you were in the infirmary so

2927
02:06:30,590 --> 02:06:28,260
his job was to one of his jobs was to

2928
02:06:32,810 --> 02:06:30,600
make sure that the records never

2929
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:32,820
indicated that this person was out out

2930
02:06:38,410 --> 02:06:36,210
New Mexico create cover stories yep okay

2931
02:06:41,830 --> 02:06:38,420
so therefore there's no way to find out

2932
02:06:43,730 --> 02:06:41,840
which soldiers were there because

2933
02:06:44,900 --> 02:06:43,740
everything would be hidden everything

2934
02:06:47,210 --> 02:06:44,910
would be classified

2935
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:47,220
everything would be covered up and so

2936
02:06:51,650 --> 02:06:49,530
far other than the witnesses you've

2937
02:06:53,870 --> 02:06:51,660
unearthed any other whistleblowers that

2938
02:06:55,780 --> 02:06:53,880
you find who have any knowledge about

2939
02:07:00,290 --> 02:06:55,790
what might have happened there was a

2940
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:00,300
minister and that was traveling by who's

2941
02:07:05,180 --> 02:07:02,370
I guess you'll say a traveling minister

2942
02:07:08,000 --> 02:07:05,190
he he took care of several several

2943
02:07:10,460 --> 02:07:08,010
churches in the area and again you know

2944
02:07:14,210 --> 02:07:10,470
what might be 10 miles or 20 miles to us

2945
02:07:15,560 --> 02:07:14,220
- there was a minister on site he

2946
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:15,570
actually I guess you could say was

2947
02:07:21,410 --> 02:07:19,410
passing by and passed where this

2948
02:07:24,020 --> 02:07:21,420
happened and he saw activity happening

2949
02:07:26,300 --> 02:07:24,030
back and forth and you know different

2950
02:07:28,280 --> 02:07:26,310
vehicles pulling in and out and just

2951
02:07:32,360 --> 02:07:28,290
activity that was unusual he was a

2952
02:07:34,340 --> 02:07:32,370
circuit teacher or minister and so he

2953
02:07:38,090 --> 02:07:34,350
was leaving from Aztec and heading back

2954
02:07:40,910 --> 02:07:38,100
home to Mancos Colorado and on his way

2955
02:07:43,370 --> 02:07:40,920
he passed by this and thought you know I

2956
02:07:45,980 --> 02:07:43,380
hope everything's okay I'll go and check

2957
02:07:48,380 --> 02:07:45,990
so he drove off the road to the crash

2958
02:07:53,030 --> 02:07:48,390
site and when he got there they were

2959
02:07:55,430 --> 02:07:53,040
removing the bodies and he went to see

2960
02:07:56,900 --> 02:07:55,440
if he could help and initially you know

2961
02:07:59,900 --> 02:07:56,910
from the distance not knowing you know

2962
02:08:02,690 --> 02:07:59,910
was this a you know where these human

2963
02:08:05,990 --> 02:08:02,700
beings or whatever and got over there

2964
02:08:09,350 --> 02:08:06,000
and of course they were all dead and he

2965
02:08:12,170 --> 02:08:09,360
gave them you know prayers said kind of

2966
02:08:14,030 --> 02:08:12,180
rest in peace and did some prayers we'll

2967
02:08:16,390 --> 02:08:14,040
get into more of this with Scott ensues

2968
02:08:18,730 --> 02:08:16,400
and Ramsey with Gene and Chris you're in

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America

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tax collectors to go after the link when

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twenty nine that's eight hundred thirty

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hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

3075
02:12:48,330 --> 02:12:45,650
you're listening to the podcast the gold

3076
02:12:50,130 --> 02:12:48,340
standard of paranormal radio

3077
02:12:53,410 --> 02:12:50,140
[Music]

3078
02:12:59,470 --> 02:12:53,420
so maybe the jinn have the answer Chris

3079
02:13:02,950 --> 02:13:01,570
sleight of hand and tricksters and

3080
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:02,960
that's going on by the government at

3081
02:13:10,180 --> 02:13:05,810
this if this case was is effectively

3082
02:13:12,340 --> 02:13:10,190
covered up as it was and I know the area

3083
02:13:16,260 --> 02:13:12,350
down there around our tech and it's very

3084
02:13:19,540 --> 02:13:16,270
difficult to pull off large moving large

3085
02:13:21,340 --> 02:13:19,550
objects like that obviously they've

3086
02:13:23,170 --> 02:13:21,350
they've had a lot of practice in the

3087
02:13:25,690 --> 02:13:23,180
intervening years with all the oil rigs

3088
02:13:27,850 --> 02:13:25,700
and the drilling that goes on in the old

3089
02:13:30,790 --> 02:13:27,860
gas fields from there - Dulce pretty

3090
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:30,800
much so and you know all the way to

3091
02:13:35,230 --> 02:13:33,530
Montrose for that matter but I'm really

3092
02:13:39,070 --> 02:13:35,240
intrigued by this now you're saying

3093
02:13:41,320 --> 02:13:39,080
Susana that actual Minister was allowed

3094
02:13:43,870 --> 02:13:41,330
to get near the crash site and give like

3095
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:43,880
last rites or something - these were to

3096
02:13:48,520 --> 02:13:46,610
pray over these bodies that that sounds

3097
02:13:50,260 --> 02:13:48,530
a little strange you would think that

3098
02:13:52,900 --> 02:13:50,270
they would have a very secure perimeter

3099
02:13:54,670 --> 02:13:52,910
around the crash site and he would never

3100
02:13:56,770 --> 02:13:54,680
have been able to get close that's a

3101
02:14:00,960 --> 02:13:56,780
pretty interesting claim well and what

3102
02:14:04,990 --> 02:14:00,970
ended up happening was he got back to

3103
02:14:06,910 --> 02:14:05,000
Minkus Colorado and it you know it's a

3104
02:14:11,310 --> 02:14:06,920
he was a Baptist minister and it was a

3105
02:14:14,260 --> 02:14:11,320
small Church and he called together

3106
02:14:16,240 --> 02:14:14,270
several of I guess you could say his

3107
02:14:18,310 --> 02:14:16,250
closest person errs and and people that

3108
02:14:19,870 --> 02:14:18,320
meant a lot to him and he sat and just

3109
02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:19,880
cried and he said I have something to

3110
02:14:27,910 --> 02:14:22,370
tell you and it and it shook me up a lot

3111
02:14:31,090 --> 02:14:27,920
and he shared what he saw and that was

3112
02:14:32,020 --> 02:14:31,100
something that you know that's one of

3113
02:14:34,030 --> 02:14:32,030
the things you're not going to see

3114
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:34,040
anyplace else because I was we felt

3115
02:14:37,840 --> 02:14:36,050
honored and the fact that got in touch

3116
02:14:39,460 --> 02:14:37,850
with some of the family members and and

3117
02:14:40,870 --> 02:14:39,470
different people that were parishioners

3118
02:14:43,960 --> 02:14:40,880
of his church and shared that

3119
02:14:45,790 --> 02:14:43,970
information and just how much it

3120
02:14:47,530 --> 02:14:45,800
impacted his life and how much it shook

3121
02:14:52,939 --> 02:14:47,540
him up

3122
02:14:55,069 --> 02:14:52,949
but he also kept it quiet he did we got

3123
02:14:57,200 --> 02:14:55,079
this information from some of the

3124
02:14:59,479 --> 02:14:57,210
parishioners in fact it was on one of

3125
02:15:01,520 --> 02:14:59,489
our researchers or one of our times out

3126
02:15:04,850 --> 02:15:01,530
there researching and we were digging

3127
02:15:07,910 --> 02:15:04,860
around in Mancos and for some

3128
02:15:09,919 --> 02:15:07,920
information and you know someone

3129
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:09,929
contacted us and said you know we need

3130
02:15:13,939 --> 02:15:11,010
to share this with you

3131
02:15:17,120 --> 02:15:13,949
and it's amazing you know people that

3132
02:15:18,890 --> 02:15:17,130
that were you know persuaded by the

3133
02:15:21,919 --> 02:15:18,900
government not to share the information

3134
02:15:24,560 --> 02:15:21,929
and were fearful how when they get

3135
02:15:25,879 --> 02:15:24,570
towards the end of their life they they

3136
02:15:27,620 --> 02:15:25,889
just feel like they have to share it

3137
02:15:29,180 --> 02:15:27,630
they've carried that burden all these

3138
02:15:31,040 --> 02:15:29,190
years and they feel like they have to

3139
02:15:32,780 --> 02:15:31,050
share but a lot of what you have here

3140
02:15:36,319 --> 02:15:32,790
most or all of what you have here is

3141
02:15:39,140 --> 02:15:36,329
basically someone's verbal description

3142
02:15:41,720 --> 02:15:39,150
what about printed documents affidavits

3143
02:15:43,339 --> 02:15:41,730
anything else drawings anything that you

3144
02:15:45,290 --> 02:15:43,349
were able to uncover during your

3145
02:15:48,740 --> 02:15:45,300
research oh my gosh

3146
02:15:50,870 --> 02:15:48,750
we have 55,000 you had to see our house

3147
02:15:52,910 --> 02:15:50,880
is not the average house let me tell you

3148
02:15:56,060 --> 02:15:52,920
I am gonna let Scott go into some

3149
02:15:58,250 --> 02:15:56,070
specifics with that for you okay Scott

3150
02:16:00,770 --> 02:15:58,260
Ramsey now explain the physical

3151
02:16:03,439 --> 02:16:00,780
documentation 55,000 pieces of

3152
02:16:05,120 --> 02:16:03,449
documentation so that we go past just

3153
02:16:08,180 --> 02:16:05,130
the remembrances and go into more of the

3154
02:16:10,430 --> 02:16:08,190
evidence Scott tell us briefly because

3155
02:16:13,580 --> 02:16:10,440
we only have a second and a half left of

3156
02:16:15,410 --> 02:16:13,590
the show the physical documents that

3157
02:16:18,830 --> 02:16:15,420
help you point to the picture of what

3158
02:16:20,919 --> 02:16:18,840
happened here well as we published and

3159
02:16:23,870 --> 02:16:20,929
put in the book there's a lot of

3160
02:16:26,870 --> 02:16:23,880
documents from both Air Force the Air

3161
02:16:29,540 --> 02:16:26,880
Force OSI the FBI

3162
02:16:34,940 --> 02:16:29,550
there was a sting operation that took

3163
02:16:39,589 --> 02:16:34,950
place in Denver Colorado 1952 I believe

3164
02:16:43,490 --> 02:16:39,599
at the Edelweiss bar where they were

3165
02:16:45,020 --> 02:16:43,500
trying to interrupt us have a sting

3166
02:16:48,589 --> 02:16:45,030
operation and interrupt the sale of

3167
02:16:51,290 --> 02:16:48,599
pictures from an individual to a mr.

3168
02:16:53,240 --> 02:16:51,300
Kline with the Baltimore Sun paper

3169
02:16:56,299 --> 02:16:53,250
newspaper this was information about

3170
02:16:58,610 --> 02:16:56,309
nesting yes specifically in the report

3171
02:17:00,560 --> 02:16:58,620
black and white photographs of a flying

3172
02:17:03,650 --> 02:17:00,570
saucer from Aztec recovered

3173
02:17:07,330 --> 02:17:03,660
Tec New Mexico those documents are in

3174
02:17:12,980 --> 02:17:07,340
the book at the end the Air Force Army

3175
02:17:15,291 --> 02:17:12,990
and FBI question because the gentleman

3176
02:17:17,030 --> 02:17:15,301
trying opposing to sell the photographs

3177
02:17:20,360 --> 02:17:17,040
when they approached him he didn't have

3178
02:17:22,041 --> 02:17:20,370
any photographs on him and he said he

3179
02:17:25,190 --> 02:17:22,051
had just been kidding the reporter all

3180
02:17:28,010 --> 02:17:25,200
along and he had no photographs and that

3181
02:17:29,780 --> 02:17:28,020
he had been drunk the problem is you

3182
02:17:31,370 --> 02:17:29,790
really think the Baltimore Sun Times

3183
02:17:35,180 --> 02:17:31,380
would send a man all the way from

3184
02:17:37,460 --> 02:17:35,190
Baltimore to Denver to pay $1500 which

3185
02:17:39,530 --> 02:17:37,470
was a lot of money back then

3186
02:17:43,970 --> 02:17:39,540
for black-and-white photos of a UFO

3187
02:17:45,800 --> 02:17:43,980
flying saucer we researched with the

3188
02:17:47,510 --> 02:17:45,810
help of Jill Burris one of the lead

3189
02:17:50,270 --> 02:17:47,520
investigative reporters with the

3190
02:17:53,960 --> 02:17:50,280
Baltimore Sun Times to find out there

3191
02:17:58,791 --> 02:17:53,970
was no Cline regardless of how you spell

3192
02:18:01,850 --> 02:17:58,801
it CI CLI any or kli any whatever that

3193
02:18:04,730 --> 02:18:01,860
worked for the Baltimore Sun Times at

3194
02:18:06,650 --> 02:18:04,740
that time so now the question is this

3195
02:18:09,140 --> 02:18:06,660
gentleman appearing to be the reporter

3196
02:18:12,410 --> 02:18:09,150
that was trying to buy the photos who

3197
02:18:15,050 --> 02:18:12,420
was he and what kind of credentials did

3198
02:18:19,220 --> 02:18:15,060
he show the FBI Army counterintelligence

3199
02:18:21,950 --> 02:18:19,230
division and Air Force OSI that they let

3200
02:18:26,060 --> 02:18:21,960
him walk right out of the bar back onto

3201
02:18:29,750 --> 02:18:26,070
the street so it's not very being a

3202
02:18:32,180 --> 02:18:29,760
little twist yeah it is and like I when

3203
02:18:33,590 --> 02:18:32,190
I contacted the Baltimore Sun they so

3204
02:18:36,410 --> 02:18:33,600
you need to be talking with Joe burrs

3205
02:18:37,791 --> 02:18:36,420
cuz he's an investigative reporter and

3206
02:18:39,110 --> 02:18:37,801
you know we went through personnel

3207
02:18:41,210 --> 02:18:39,120
records and the whole thing there was

3208
02:18:43,880 --> 02:18:41,220
one Cline throughout the years at worked

3209
02:18:45,770 --> 02:18:43,890
there but he wrote about arts and

3210
02:18:47,480 --> 02:18:45,780
entertainment and it wasn't even and he

3211
02:18:50,060 --> 02:18:47,490
was there in the 70s wasn't even there

3212
02:18:53,780 --> 02:18:50,070
in the 50s so that plot really thickens

3213
02:18:56,660 --> 02:18:53,790
because not only and in in the report

3214
02:18:59,810 --> 02:18:56,670
the military says the man claimed he was

3215
02:19:03,020 --> 02:18:59,820
drunk and did not have any photographs

3216
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:03,030
on Mad living this however we do not

3217
02:19:08,390 --> 02:19:05,370
believe him in other words they did not

3218
02:19:10,190 --> 02:19:08,400
believe that he was just drunk it looks

3219
02:19:12,770 --> 02:19:10,200
like they thought that he was in fact

3220
02:19:13,640 --> 02:19:12,780
trying to sell photographs of the flying

3221
02:19:15,831 --> 02:19:13,650
saucer that

3222
02:19:19,070 --> 02:19:15,841
landed or crash near Aztec New Mexico

3223
02:19:22,970 --> 02:19:19,080
but gene there's a lot on this you know

3224
02:19:27,291 --> 02:19:22,980
the books only 224 pages with pictures

3225
02:19:28,970 --> 02:19:27,301
and documents I when we set the book up

3226
02:19:33,200 --> 02:19:28,980
to write it we tried not to bore the

3227
02:19:35,240 --> 02:19:33,210
reader to death but really in reality it

3228
02:19:38,121 --> 02:19:35,250
could have been a book four or five six

3229
02:19:39,890 --> 02:19:38,131
hundred pages it all depends on how much

3230
02:19:41,480 --> 02:19:39,900
you want to board people to nauseam with

3231
02:19:42,831 --> 02:19:41,490
documents a lot of people that's all

3232
02:19:45,110 --> 02:19:42,841
they would buy the book for it to look

3233
02:19:46,730 --> 02:19:45,120
at the supportive documents and other

3234
02:19:50,091 --> 02:19:46,740
people just want to read about a

3235
02:19:51,591 --> 02:19:50,101
historical event that happened so I you

3236
02:19:54,171 --> 02:19:51,601
know okay by the end beyond the

3237
02:19:56,511 --> 02:19:54,181
photograph that may or may not have

3238
02:19:58,190 --> 02:19:56,521
existed well there are key documents are

3239
02:20:00,171 --> 02:19:58,200
you including in the book or at least

3240
02:20:02,480 --> 02:20:00,181
have available a lot of great

3241
02:20:06,160 --> 02:20:02,490
correspondence between Frank Scully and

3242
02:20:08,570 --> 02:20:06,170
Silas Newton back and forth

3243
02:20:10,850 --> 02:20:08,580
correspondence between Frank Scully and

3244
02:20:18,041 --> 02:20:10,860
Paul Smith the editor of the San

3245
02:20:20,860 --> 02:20:18,051
Francisco newspaper back and forth with

3246
02:20:27,011 --> 02:20:20,870
Scully and other people concerning the

3247
02:20:30,020 --> 02:20:27,021
the incident we found out that in 2010

3248
02:20:33,530 --> 02:20:30,030
that all Frank Scully's files are

3249
02:20:36,320 --> 02:20:33,540
located at the University of Wyoming and

3250
02:20:39,131 --> 02:20:36,330
Laramie so a dear friend of mine Mike

3251
02:20:42,621 --> 02:20:39,141
price and I went out for seven days and

3252
02:20:44,301 --> 02:20:42,631
went through there's many documents as

3253
02:20:47,150 --> 02:20:44,311
we could we did not get to read them all

3254
02:20:49,220 --> 02:20:47,160
there's 33,000 documents and it's his

3255
02:20:51,820 --> 02:20:49,230
entire life political career books he

3256
02:20:55,011 --> 02:20:51,830
wrote but there's a huge amount on

3257
02:20:56,780 --> 02:20:55,021
behind the flying saucers so this was

3258
02:20:58,970 --> 02:20:56,790
serious research it's not just somebody

3259
02:21:00,950 --> 02:20:58,980
throwing a book together because he

3260
02:21:03,140 --> 02:21:00,960
wanted to make a few dollars off UFOs

3261
02:21:08,091 --> 02:21:03,150
you're not ever gonna make a few dollars

3262
02:21:09,291 --> 02:21:08,101
writing publishing a book on UFOs that's

3263
02:21:11,600 --> 02:21:09,301
never gonna have what other kind of

3264
02:21:14,600 --> 02:21:11,610
evidence did you find amongst Scully's

3265
02:21:17,331 --> 02:21:14,610
papers at Laramie

3266
02:21:19,100 --> 02:21:17,341
I just just great correspondence we put

3267
02:21:21,291 --> 02:21:19,110
in the book you know Frank Scully you

3268
02:21:22,910 --> 02:21:21,301
know he said several times if he was a

3269
02:21:24,730 --> 02:21:22,920
Duke you know he'd write the story on

3270
02:21:28,750 --> 02:21:24,740
how he was duped on his own

3271
02:21:29,610 --> 02:21:28,760
well he took this to his death the two

3272
02:21:33,190 --> 02:21:29,620
things

3273
02:21:35,290 --> 02:21:33,200
who did the real dr. G's war he would

3274
02:21:38,380 --> 02:21:35,300
never divulge even to his family dr. G

3275
02:21:40,410 --> 02:21:38,390
was a composite it wasn't what a person

3276
02:21:43,420 --> 02:21:40,420
yeah we have an example of this which is

3277
02:21:45,580 --> 02:21:43,430
it's not unusual for people who write

3278
02:21:48,480 --> 02:21:45,590
factual books to make composite

3279
02:21:51,100 --> 02:21:48,490
characters even Obama did that in his

3280
02:21:53,290 --> 02:21:51,110
autobiographies some of the characters

3281
02:21:55,780 --> 02:21:53,300
are composites because I guess the space

3282
02:21:57,580 --> 02:21:55,790
involved so maybe how many people would

3283
02:22:02,160 --> 02:21:57,590
he'd be talking about here in a

3284
02:22:06,219 --> 02:22:02,170
composite character eight to nine okay

3285
02:22:08,980 --> 02:22:06,229
so he creates in the book dr. G where he

3286
02:22:11,320 --> 02:22:08,990
says dr. G is a composite of eight to

3287
02:22:13,450 --> 02:22:11,330
nine scientists these are nine

3288
02:22:15,460 --> 02:22:13,460
scientists being the ones that are being

3289
02:22:17,410 --> 02:22:15,470
referred to earlier you'll answer that

3290
02:22:19,540 --> 02:22:17,420
question in a moment we have Scott and

3291
02:22:27,760 --> 02:22:19,550
Suzanne Ramsay you're on with gene and

3292
02:22:29,980 --> 02:22:27,770
Chris you're in the para cab America's

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3324
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3325
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3326
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with sports broadcaster Erin Andrews I'm

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down in the main ballroom of a four-star

3351
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hotel and often with Tom the GF Tom

3352
02:24:53,330 --> 02:24:51,210
you've had four wedding receptions in

3353
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three days that's a brutal schedule

3354
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yeah we've been hustling well your team

3355
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still looks fresh and I got to say the

3356
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carpet does to talk about your game plan

3357
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simple we caught in the all-star team

3358
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from Cintas and they changed our ground

3359
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game completely Cintas they're known for

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uniforms how did they tackle your floors

3361
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their tile and carpet deep cleaning

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with our old playbook we used to rip out

3364
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the carpet so we're running with Cintas

3365
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from now on thanks Tom and thanks to

3366
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Cintas there's plenty of life left in

3367
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this dance floor let's go up to the

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booth tile and carpet cleaning is one of

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the many experts services the Cintas

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radio and tell him to bring in the team

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with the white truck digestive health is

3375
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the key to wellness and elimination of

3376
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toxins that bears repeating digestive

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controlling yeast infections is never

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3392
02:26:17,500 --> 02:26:15,260
live viable beneficial microbes to

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3396
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3397
02:26:34,900 --> 02:26:31,610
that's eight six six three six nine

3398
02:26:39,610 --> 02:26:34,910
three six seven eight fro am one the raw

3399
02:26:42,040 --> 02:26:39,620
probiotic hi this is nuclear physicist

3400
02:26:45,520 --> 02:26:42,050
or tourists and Friedman you are

3401
02:26:50,140 --> 02:26:45,530
listening to the parrot case the gold

3402
02:26:52,091 --> 02:26:50,150
standard normal radio and by the way

3403
02:26:54,730 --> 02:26:52,101
Stan Friedman wrote the introduction to

3404
02:26:57,400 --> 02:26:54,740
the book written by Scott and Suzanne

3405
02:27:00,820 --> 02:26:57,410
Ramsey the Aztec incident recovery at

3406
02:27:03,100 --> 02:27:00,830
Hart Canyon and we were discussing the

3407
02:27:06,160 --> 02:27:03,110
research that was done by the late Frank

3408
02:27:09,400 --> 02:27:06,170
Scully into this now how many documents

3409
02:27:11,920 --> 02:27:09,410
does he actually have on this particular

3410
02:27:14,290 --> 02:27:11,930
book did you get a sense is it tens of

3411
02:27:16,540 --> 02:27:14,300
thousands of documents hundreds one well

3412
02:27:20,261 --> 02:27:16,550
there's 33,000 documents in Frank

3413
02:27:23,140 --> 02:27:20,271
Scully's collection I could give you a

3414
02:27:25,511 --> 02:27:23,150
pretty close account of what entails

3415
02:27:28,120 --> 02:27:25,521
just the book behind the flying saucers

3416
02:27:31,360 --> 02:27:28,130
I copied Mike Price and I copied over

3417
02:27:33,910 --> 02:27:31,370
800 was 863 documents we brought back

3418
02:27:35,740 --> 02:27:33,920
that doesn't include photographs that we

3419
02:27:38,290 --> 02:27:35,750
had scanned on this but actual hard

3420
02:27:41,860 --> 02:27:38,300
letters correspondence back and forth

3421
02:27:44,440 --> 02:27:41,870
and yeah yeah Scully did a lot of them

3422
02:27:47,560 --> 02:27:44,450
incredible things throughout his career

3423
02:27:50,410 --> 02:27:47,570
I've got a lot of his books that he had

3424
02:27:54,310 --> 02:27:50,420
written some were big hits some were not

3425
02:27:57,370 --> 02:27:54,320
so great he was a very popular guy very

3426
02:28:00,429 --> 02:27:57,380
very famous guy but

3427
02:28:03,189 --> 02:28:00,439
the fact that he would not divulge even

3428
02:28:05,530 --> 02:28:03,199
leading up to his death who dr. G was

3429
02:28:07,950 --> 02:28:05,540
because he was sworn to secrecy he said

3430
02:28:11,229 --> 02:28:07,960
he could cause these guys great harm and

3431
02:28:13,420 --> 02:28:11,239
we're talking about dr. G being v 9

3432
02:28:16,929 --> 02:28:13,430
scientists who were consulted about

3433
02:28:19,899 --> 02:28:16,939
moving the object right okay we did a

3434
02:28:23,559 --> 02:28:19,909
lot of work all the way up till August

3435
02:28:26,469 --> 02:28:23,569
of 2011 we went up to the University of

3436
02:28:30,280 --> 02:28:26,479
Minnesota to go through their archives

3437
02:28:33,340 --> 02:28:30,290
wonderful archive by the way and some of

3438
02:28:35,590 --> 02:28:33,350
the scientists we had an interest in and

3439
02:28:37,179 --> 02:28:35,600
it just part of the book as I state to

3440
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:37,189
the reader is speculation this

3441
02:28:42,700 --> 02:28:38,810
speculation on our part

3442
02:28:44,380 --> 02:28:42,710
after hearing throughout the book the

3443
02:28:46,660 --> 02:28:44,390
Franks Kelly wrote behind the flying

3444
02:28:49,090 --> 02:28:46,670
saucers he leaves hints as to their

3445
02:28:51,729 --> 02:28:49,100
background and I'll give you one quick

3446
02:28:55,870 --> 02:28:51,739
example in the interest of time he says

3447
02:28:57,820 --> 02:28:55,880
that these men were men of science well

3448
02:29:00,670 --> 02:28:57,830
what does that mean well it turns out

3449
02:29:05,530 --> 02:29:00,680
every year there's an award for the man

3450
02:29:08,920 --> 02:29:05,540
of science and ironically dr. Jonathan

3451
02:29:12,099 --> 02:29:08,930
Torrance Tate had received it in the

3452
02:29:14,380 --> 02:29:12,109
year the years around Scully statement

3453
02:29:18,189 --> 02:29:14,390
about that so we started looking at

3454
02:29:20,290 --> 02:29:18,199
Tate's biography and resume and it

3455
02:29:24,099 --> 02:29:20,300
started to fit the character in Scully's

3456
02:29:28,030 --> 02:29:24,109
book work for the OSRD under dr.

3457
02:29:31,210 --> 02:29:28,040
Vandiver bush that type of thing dr.

3458
02:29:35,320 --> 02:29:31,220
otto Schmidt also alumni from University

3459
02:29:38,109 --> 02:29:35,330
of Minnesota from the teaching side and

3460
02:29:41,260 --> 02:29:38,119
there's just an incredible composite of

3461
02:29:46,420 --> 02:29:41,270
people that would have worked on the

3462
02:29:48,340 --> 02:29:46,430
projects during World War Two as Scully

3463
02:29:50,889 --> 02:29:48,350
described in the book so you can infer

3464
02:29:52,420 --> 02:29:50,899
from what Scully wrote that these may

3465
02:29:55,330 --> 02:29:52,430
have been the nine scientists who were

3466
02:30:00,280 --> 02:29:55,340
consulted about this right and if we're

3467
02:30:02,349 --> 02:30:00,290
wrong we're not off by many in it as

3468
02:30:05,590 --> 02:30:02,359
long as Scully's description are

3469
02:30:07,090 --> 02:30:05,600
accurate we should be right there so I

3470
02:30:09,370 --> 02:30:07,100
get the impression of incredible

3471
02:30:10,990 --> 02:30:09,380
seriousness and diligence in this

3472
02:30:13,480 --> 02:30:11,000
research it's not just something that

3473
02:30:15,670 --> 02:30:13,490
through together once again and you guys

3474
02:30:18,340 --> 02:30:15,680
have been spending all these years

3475
02:30:20,230 --> 02:30:18,350
putting these documents together trying

3476
02:30:22,180 --> 02:30:20,240
to figure out what happened and now

3477
02:30:23,350 --> 02:30:22,190
we're in the speculative room because we

3478
02:30:25,480 --> 02:30:23,360
don't have much time and we have to

3479
02:30:27,880 --> 02:30:25,490
figure out where to go so having done

3480
02:30:30,580 --> 02:30:27,890
all this research spend all this time

3481
02:30:32,740 --> 02:30:30,590
and I gather maybe you'll go somewhere

3482
02:30:34,930 --> 02:30:32,750
else and doing your future research into

3483
02:30:37,540 --> 02:30:34,940
a different project but where can we

3484
02:30:39,280 --> 02:30:37,550
take the Aztek case from here there

3485
02:30:40,720 --> 02:30:39,290
aren't going to be any witnesses to be

3486
02:30:44,290 --> 02:30:40,730
found less they live to be over a

3487
02:30:47,580 --> 02:30:44,300
hundred so where do we find a smoking

3488
02:30:50,620 --> 02:30:47,590
gun or can we ever find a smoking gun

3489
02:30:56,260 --> 02:30:50,630
that's good that's the $64 question I

3490
02:30:58,840 --> 02:30:56,270
guess I firmly believe in the Four

3491
02:31:02,190 --> 02:30:58,850
Corners area there you know there is at

3492
02:31:04,840 --> 02:31:02,200
least one or two people still alive a

3493
02:31:08,560 --> 02:31:04,850
lot of speculation behind what I just

3494
02:31:12,640 --> 02:31:08,570
said but I firmly believe there are we

3495
02:31:16,900 --> 02:31:12,650
were contacted by a gentleman 93 years

3496
02:31:20,080 --> 02:31:16,910
old as we were literally waiting on the

3497
02:31:22,420 --> 02:31:20,090
shipment of the books and he asked if I

3498
02:31:24,490 --> 02:31:22,430
would send him a copy he wanted to read

3499
02:31:26,950 --> 02:31:24,500
the book to see how accurate our

3500
02:31:28,930 --> 02:31:26,960
research was that's pretty powerful

3501
02:31:32,050 --> 02:31:28,940
statement this particular person do you

3502
02:31:35,980 --> 02:31:32,060
know of his background what was he Army

3503
02:31:38,170 --> 02:31:35,990
career okay and I asked him were you

3504
02:31:40,750 --> 02:31:38,180
close to this case and he said

3505
02:31:43,750 --> 02:31:40,760
I'll read your book I'll write your

3506
02:31:48,220 --> 02:31:43,760
letter and I'll grade it on how accurate

3507
02:31:51,580 --> 02:31:48,230
it was where you fell short and then

3508
02:31:53,560 --> 02:31:51,590
we'll talk and he said it's my age I'd

3509
02:31:56,920 --> 02:31:53,570
love to talk about it it's not as if

3510
02:31:58,810 --> 02:31:56,930
they could stop him but I don't think he

3511
02:32:02,530 --> 02:31:58,820
really cares at 93 what they're gonna do

3512
02:32:05,890 --> 02:32:02,540
just be lucky and it could be an elderly

3513
02:32:08,380 --> 02:32:05,900
man that's just off on a having a

3514
02:32:10,120 --> 02:32:08,390
wonderful day with his imagination I

3515
02:32:11,710 --> 02:32:10,130
don't know but he took the time to write

3516
02:32:13,420 --> 02:32:11,720
a really nice letter well that also

3517
02:32:14,710 --> 02:32:13,430
raises the question the skeptics are

3518
02:32:17,740 --> 02:32:14,720
going to bring up and we might as well

3519
02:32:19,470 --> 02:32:17,750
touch that now how do we know that with

3520
02:32:21,730 --> 02:32:19,480
all this evidence you presented

3521
02:32:23,800 --> 02:32:21,740
remembrances from eyewitnesses or

3522
02:32:26,620 --> 02:32:23,810
families of eyewitnesses that's

3523
02:32:30,250 --> 02:32:26,630
these weren't just elderly women and

3524
02:32:32,349 --> 02:32:30,260
gentlemen telling a story well we've had

3525
02:32:34,899 --> 02:32:32,359
some of those but with Jean when you

3526
02:32:37,120 --> 02:32:34,909
when you sit down and before anything's

3527
02:32:39,130 --> 02:32:37,130
out before we had hit the lecture trail

3528
02:32:42,010 --> 02:32:39,140
if you want to call it that we spoke at

3529
02:32:44,740 --> 02:32:42,020
a couple of UFO gigs but before we

3530
02:32:47,290 --> 02:32:44,750
divulged to anyone what we knew only

3531
02:32:49,179 --> 02:32:47,300
Susanna and I knew that and and a couple

3532
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:49,189
of people Frank Warren was privy to some

3533
02:32:54,790 --> 02:32:51,770
Mike Price was privy to some when you're

3534
02:32:58,269 --> 02:32:54,800
talking to elderly men whether they be

3535
02:33:00,910 --> 02:32:58,279
in Phoenix or in Las Vegas and they're

3536
02:33:03,069 --> 02:33:00,920
telling the same story and these guys

3537
02:33:05,050 --> 02:33:03,079
you know it wasn't like two old-timers

3538
02:33:08,679 --> 02:33:05,060
sitting on the park bench in downtown

3539
02:33:11,050 --> 02:33:08,689
Aztec that could have coerced this story

3540
02:33:13,870 --> 02:33:11,060
all these years these guys are separated

3541
02:33:16,840 --> 02:33:13,880
by miles and in case' ken Farley he

3542
02:33:18,700 --> 02:33:16,850
never knew anybody in that area he was

3543
02:33:22,330 --> 02:33:18,710
the transient guy driving through that

3544
02:33:24,099 --> 02:33:22,340
day so when I'm interviewing him and by

3545
02:33:26,950 --> 02:33:24,109
the way he only wanted to talk when it

3546
02:33:29,500 --> 02:33:26,960
was very obvious that he was near death

3547
02:33:33,189 --> 02:33:29,510
he was in the stage four of emphysema

3548
02:33:36,729 --> 02:33:33,199
and and did die eight months after we

3549
02:33:38,260 --> 02:33:36,739
interviewed him Ken he said look you

3550
02:33:40,090 --> 02:33:38,270
know I don't I don't know who the other

3551
02:33:41,920 --> 02:33:40,100
guys at the crash site were all I know

3552
02:33:43,359 --> 02:33:41,930
is I was with my buddy we're on the

3553
02:33:45,490 --> 02:33:43,369
western edge we stayed away from

3554
02:33:49,389 --> 02:33:45,500
everybody they were doing stupid things

3555
02:33:50,740 --> 02:33:49,399
climbing on the craft we were just in

3556
02:33:53,740 --> 02:33:50,750
awe of what we were looking at our

3557
02:33:57,340 --> 02:33:53,750
little adventure turned into a bigger

3558
02:34:00,189 --> 02:33:57,350
adventure that day but do you think the

3559
02:34:02,830 --> 02:34:00,199
final evidence or proof will ever come

3560
02:34:05,889 --> 02:34:02,840
out about Aztec or Roswell or any other

3561
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:05,899
possible early case involving UFOs or

3562
02:34:12,899 --> 02:34:09,010
crashes I don't I don't think it well

3563
02:34:16,450 --> 02:34:12,909
not in our lifetime I'm 54 years of age

3564
02:34:18,880 --> 02:34:16,460
started on this when I was in my 20s I I

3565
02:34:20,559 --> 02:34:18,890
just don't see it happening I don't see

3566
02:34:23,979 --> 02:34:20,569
the government especially in these

3567
02:34:26,679 --> 02:34:23,989
trying times to come forward admit that

3568
02:34:28,420 --> 02:34:26,689
well for 63 years or 64 years for

3569
02:34:30,969 --> 02:34:28,430
Roswell we've been telling the public a

3570
02:34:33,849 --> 02:34:30,979
lie regardless of whether it was for our

3571
02:34:37,000 --> 02:34:33,859
own safety and if we got the military

3572
02:34:37,750 --> 02:34:37,010
technology any kind of technology these

3573
02:34:39,730 --> 02:34:37,760
car

3574
02:34:42,340 --> 02:34:39,740
I wouldn't have told the public either

3575
02:34:44,260 --> 02:34:42,350
quite frankly you know possibility of a

3576
02:34:45,670 --> 02:34:44,270
whistleblower what about the President

3577
02:34:47,230 --> 02:34:45,680
of the United States this is one of the

3578
02:34:49,960 --> 02:34:47,240
ongoing piece of speculation I'll just

3579
02:34:52,240 --> 02:34:49,970
throw it out there and that is when the

3580
02:34:54,310 --> 02:34:52,250
new president takes office and we have

3581
02:34:57,070 --> 02:34:54,320
another guy who thinks he were hopes

3582
02:34:59,290 --> 02:34:57,080
he's going to take over in November say

3583
02:35:02,800 --> 02:34:59,300
Romney becomes president takes over in

3584
02:35:05,770 --> 02:35:02,810
January of 2013 is someone going to go

3585
02:35:08,170 --> 02:35:05,780
to him and say mr. president we've got

3586
02:35:10,270 --> 02:35:08,180
to tell you something but it can never

3587
02:35:12,130 --> 02:35:10,280
leave the Oval Office or will they just

3588
02:35:14,070 --> 02:35:12,140
ignore that because he's just another

3589
02:35:16,780 --> 02:35:14,080
temporary guy and he'll be replaced

3590
02:35:18,940 --> 02:35:16,790
he's another temporary guy and he'll be

3591
02:35:22,090 --> 02:35:18,950
replaced Obama is gonna have the most

3592
02:35:24,130 --> 02:35:22,100
transparent presidency ever and actually

3593
02:35:26,889 --> 02:35:24,140
Eric Holder has made it more difficult

3594
02:35:28,990 --> 02:35:26,899
to get documents out of the archives

3595
02:35:31,120 --> 02:35:29,000
than any other president since either

3596
02:35:32,320 --> 02:35:31,130
one so I've heard from Larry Bryant and

3597
02:35:35,050 --> 02:35:32,330
other people who do I get government

3598
02:35:36,910 --> 02:35:35,060
documents let me ask you to ask you

3599
02:35:40,050 --> 02:35:36,920
Scott Ramsay please tell our listeners

3600
02:35:45,580 --> 02:35:40,060
rather than get a copy of the book

3601
02:35:48,070 --> 02:35:45,590
WWWE Aztek incident calm and you can go

3602
02:35:49,990 --> 02:35:48,080
on there with paypal now that we have

3603
02:35:53,230 --> 02:35:50,000
books and I apologize to those that

3604
02:35:55,179 --> 02:35:53,240
waited two weeks because I was late we

3605
02:35:57,280 --> 02:35:55,189
will ship your book out that day we get

3606
02:35:59,830 --> 02:35:57,290
the order it will go media rate unless

3607
02:36:02,020 --> 02:35:59,840
you tell us differently but it's the

3608
02:36:05,020 --> 02:36:02,030
Aztek incident calm don't have an

3609
02:36:07,240 --> 02:36:05,030
electronic version eventually yes we

3610
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:07,250
already have it done I just want to sell

3611
02:36:11,230 --> 02:36:09,050
some more books before we put it out

3612
02:36:13,179 --> 02:36:11,240
that to put into iBooks or maybe to

3613
02:36:17,290 --> 02:36:13,189
Amazon candle or something like that a

3614
02:36:18,820 --> 02:36:17,300
special reminder you can find us at the

3615
02:36:22,840 --> 02:36:18,830
power cast calm once again the power

3616
02:36:24,639 --> 02:36:22,850
cast calm our forums at forum depth the

3617
02:36:26,639 --> 02:36:24,649
power cast com where else would they be

3618
02:36:28,900 --> 02:36:26,649
that's where you have cutting-edge

3619
02:36:30,940 --> 02:36:28,910
discussions on all aspects of the power

3620
02:36:33,610 --> 02:36:30,950
realm or lots of other things and you

3621
02:36:37,090 --> 02:36:33,620
can find us on Twitter send us a tweet

3622
02:36:39,580 --> 02:36:37,100
to the power cast we are the power casts

3623
02:36:41,930 --> 02:36:39,590
on Twitter and don't forget that Chris

3624
02:36:44,841 --> 02:36:41,940
O'Brien site our strange planet calm

3625
02:36:47,001 --> 02:36:44,851
is being fairly redesigned our special

3626
02:36:51,980 --> 02:36:47,011
thanks to Scott the suzanne ramsey for

3627
02:36:57,980 --> 02:36:54,461
[Music]

3628
02:37:01,011 --> 02:36:57,990
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3629
02:37:03,881 --> 02:37:01,021
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

3630
02:37:07,820 --> 02:37:03,891
presentation of making the impossible